One whole good sized nation vs an Intellgent Kaiju: Who is the most troublesome enemy

[Disliker of the mary sue]

A character idea I had on the back burner for a long time was the idea of a Bard who ditched his wife who was a powerful individual to go on adventures. The two different ideas I had for the ex wife was either, a beloved queen of a good sized nation that doing well economically, or a giant fire-breathing dragon that had the power to destroy nations. In both cases the character was not aware of their status until after he was married (the dragon disguising itself as a human during the courtship.). The idea would they would be pissedor some reason, whether it personal feeling being broken or the bard did something like steal a valuable treasure on his escape, so the Bard would have a very powerful enemy and would have to keep a low profile.

Hm so I was discussing this idea with a friend and mentioned I considered a dragon since well it could in theory be less trouble then an entire country. My ideas being that a country could create political pressure on the country lands my bard is hiding in, as in "Give me this individual in chains or else our trade agreement is over." But then my friend pointed out a intelligent dragon that was powerful enough to basically destroy nations could do the same. "give me back my husband in chains or I will burn your entire country to the ground."

I don;t know anyone has any opinions on this, Is their things a country as can do to make things miserable for a high priody target that a super powerful individual could not? Would one really be a worse enemy to have then the other or are they kind of the same level of bad?

[robkelk]

Can either of them call in allies to help put pressure on the country that's sheltering the bard? That's a force multiplier that could make a big difference - but it's also a setting-dependent force multiplier.

[Johnny1A.2]

Originally Posted by Disliker of the mary sue

A character idea I had on the back burner for a long time was the idea of a Bard who ditched his wife who was a powerful individual to go on adventures. The two different ideas I had for the ex wife was either, a beloved queen of a good sized nation that doing well economically, or a giant fire-breathing dragon that had the power to destroy nations. In both cases the character was not aware of their status until after he was married (the dragon disguising itself as a human during the courtship.). The idea would they would be pissedor some reason, whether it personal feeling being broken or the bard did something like steal a valuable treasure on his escape, so the Bard would have a very powerful enemy and would have to keep a low profile.

Hm so I was discussing this idea with a friend and mentioned I considered a dragon since well it could in theory be less trouble then an entire country. My ideas being that a country could create political pressure on the country lands my bard is hiding in, as in "Give me this individual in chains or else our trade agreement is over." But then my friend pointed out a intelligent dragon that was powerful enough to basically destroy nations could do the same. "give me back my husband in chains or I will burn your entire country to the ground."

I don;t know anyone has any opinions on this, Is their things a country as can do to make things miserable for a high priody target that a super powerful individual could not? Would one really be a worse enemy to have then the other or are they kind of the same level of bad?

It's apples and oranges. It also depends on the exact power and nature of the dragon/superbeing.

If she's really as powerful as Godzilla, for ex, (i.e. indestructible) it's different than if she's more like Smaug.

But an individual super-enemy vs. a nation or other big organization is a very different prospect. If the superenemy knows where you are and can corner you, you may be more screwed than if you're facing human opponents.

OTOH, the nation can be in many places at once. That is, the dragon-girl is presumably in one specific place, and if the bard can keep track of her location he can make a point of being elsewhere. If my ex is in Poland, I make a point of going to Japan or Paraguay, so to speak.

But a powerful state could have agents in both Japan and Paraguay at the same time, and it might be a lot harder to identify who is and is not working for the government in question, since we're talking fellow humans or the equivalent. If the bard has friends/relatives in the home country, they too give the government some kind of leverage on him that the dragon might lack.

The superdragon might have a vulnerable spot the Bard could find, physical or psychological, too, that wouldn't apply to the armies and intelligent personnel of a human state. The bard might know the mind and thinking of the dragon better than he can any one of the many many employees the state could send after him, making the super-ex a little more predictable.

OTOH, the bard is a lot less likely to win a physical confrontation with the dragon than any given soldier or spy, on balance.

This is one of those cases where 'which is worse' is highly contextual.

[Disliker of the mary sue]

Originally Posted by robkelk

Can either of them call in allies to help put pressure on the country that's sheltering the bard? That's a force multiplier that could make a big difference - but it's also a setting-dependent force multiplier.

Well I suppose if a country has an allied country that would go on a witch hunt like this or the dragon knows other dragons who owe her a favor...maybe.

[dcarson]

I'd say the country is better from a GM point of view. With the dragon if there is an encounter the party either flees leaving a devastated area in their wake or is toasted. Toasted is kind of game ending. With the country they can have encounters that they can win and the threat remains to happen again later.

[Murrkon5]

As Johnny touched on, there are too many unanswered variables concerning the power of the dragon.

Trying to work the logic gland without spraining something in my head:
1) The dragon is all-powerful and unreasonable. It is a god-monster and there are really no "nations". Just tribes of "monkeys" allowed to live at idle whim. Nobody would shelter the Bard and he'd be turned over the moment "god" requested it.

2) The dragon is all-powerful but reasonable. A civilized mind that will listen and think before striking/eating. Such a mind can be bamboozled, tricked, lied to and otherwise misdirected. Trying to determine if she has been bamboozled will require she carefully investigate incognito as a human. This is a slow process, like with any bounty hunter-fugitive scenario. The Bard has to keep moving, but should keep well ahead of his vengeful ex.

3) The dragon is not all-powerful and therefore it makes no difference if reasonable or unreasonable. She'll make demands and be the irresistible force until she meets the immovable object. And then she's an ex-dragon.

A nation can be a beautiful assassin with poison or a war fleet blockading the coast and demanding the Bard or anything inbetween.

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by dcarson

I'd say the country is better from a GM point of view. With the dragon if there is an encounter the party either flees leaving a devastated area in their wake or is toasted. Toasted is kind of game ending. With the country they can have encounters that they can win and the threat remains to happen again later.

Also keep in mind that if you manage to kill a super powered individual, you're free (maybe even a hero). If you kill a leader of a powerful nation, you've replaced "wanted by ruler for heart breaking" with "wanted by nation for regicide".

As a balance to "can either spurned party call in allies?" also ask "do either have rivals the spurner can ask for support?"

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by Murrkon5

2) The dragon is all-powerful but reasonable. A civilized mind that will listen and think before striking/eating. Such a mind can be bamboozled, tricked, lied to and otherwise misdirected.

There's also the possibility of honest negotiation. Perhaps, after cooling off a bit after the initial insult, she will listen to reason. That it was she who had lied to the bard and caused the whole problem.

And now I've got two images competing for my headspace:

1) Wife: "Sweetie, I hope you can still love me, but I'm really a dragon."
Husband: <tries to punch wife, but is held back by security>
Audience: "Jerry, Jerry, Jerry."

2) A dragon and a bard in marriage counseling.

[Johnny1A.2]

Originally Posted by RyanW

There's also the possibility of honest negotiation. Perhaps, after cooling off a bit after the initial insult, she will listen to reason. That it was she who had lied to the bard and caused the whole problem.

And now I've got two images competing for my headspace:

1) Wife: "Sweetie, I hope you can still love me, but I'm really a dragon."
Husband: <tries to punch wife, but is held back by security>
Audience: "Jerry, Jerry, Jerry."

2) A dragon and a bard in marriage counseling.

Which seriously touches on an issue the OP didn't mention but which does affect the queen vs. dragon/superbeing question: how does the Bard regard his ex? Does he hate her? Terrified of her? Hates dragons generally? Doesn't believe in inter-species marriage/sex? Just can't stand being tied down? Thought he was using her and found out otherwise? Thought being prince consort sounded like a good gig, and got bored? Is he still attracted to her, conflicted? Does he know something nasty about her (aside from her species, if she's not human)? Or was he fleeing something else about the situation?

That's going to matter both to how the bard approaches his problem, and how other people interact with the situation.

That'll also affect how other people react to his problem, too.

For one ex among many, there are likely to be people who will regard "spouse lied about being human" as a more valid reason to leave a spouse than "tired of being prince consort". They might be more likely to hide/help to escape/defend the bard for the former than the latter.

What does she want, exactly? Is she zonked off in an exasperated spouse way and wants her husband back home? Is she zonked off in a royal way because he's messed up the political and social balances of the state? Does she need him to be the father of her offspring for some specific reason? Does she intend to kill him? Torture him? Imprison him?

That too matters to the question, because it'll apply differently to a nation or a dragon/superbeing.

[Disliker of the mary sue]

Originally Posted by Johnny1A.2

Which seriously touches on an issue the OP didn't mention but which does affect the queen vs. dragon/superbeing question: how does the Bard regard his ex? Does he hate her? Terrified of her? Hates dragons generally? Doesn't believe in inter-species marriage/sex? Just can't stand being tied down? Thought he was using her and found out otherwise? Thought being prince consort sounded like a good gig, and got bored? Is he still attracted to her, conflicted? Does he know something nasty about her (aside from her species, if she's not human)? Or was he fleeing something else about the situation?

That's going to matter both to how the bard approaches his problem, and how other people interact with the situation.

That'll also affect how other people react to his problem, too.

For one ex among many, there are likely to be people who will regard "spouse lied about being human" as a more valid reason to leave a spouse than "tired of being prince consort". They might be more likely to hide/help to escape/defend the bard for the former than the latter.

What does she want, exactly? Is she zonked off in an exasperated spouse way and wants her husband back home? Is she zonked off in a royal way because he's messed up the political and social balances of the state? Does she need him to be the father of her offspring for some specific reason? Does she intend to kill him? Torture him? Imprison him?

That too matters to the question, because it'll apply differently to a nation or a dragon/superbeing.

It a theoretical character not quite fully developed, more in the brainstorming phase before I find a campaign that would let me have said 40 point or more enemy.I Was thinking in the Royal case he more or less bored of doing nothing and kind of misses being on the road doing his own thing. With the dragon it more or less "Oh god I married a dragon." and his first reaction is to run when she isn't looking...maybe steal something from the big pile of treasure if you need a more valid reason for the dragon to give a ****.