AD&D Gygaxian Dragons in GURPS

[Pragmatic]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Or you could just not use that dragon unless you have PCs for whom the scale of a jetliner is perfectly reasonable.

In terms of conversions from D&D to GURPS, I'm of the opinion that "yeah, their reputation is a little overblown" should be used in most cases. :-)

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

In terms of conversions from D&D to GURPS, I'm of the opinion that "yeah, their reputation is a little overblown" should be used in most cases. :-)

Then just make it a smaller dragon. If I'm going to put a 70' dragon in an adventure, it's going to have stats appropriate to something 70' long.

[Pragmatic]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Then just make it a smaller dragon. If I'm going to put a 70' dragon in an adventure, it's going to have stats appropriate to something 70' long.

And that's okay. It suits the story you're trying to tell.

I'm talking about converting directly from D&D to GURPS. The rule of thumb is "75cp + 25cp/level." A level 20 character is 575cp, roughly. How well would such a party do against a dragon converted directly over from D&D? DR rated at about 10-15, damage rated in the 3 to 5 dice range, and various spells.

I know I do not have any experience with playing GURPS, but I'm finding it hard to believe that even a 500-600cp character could take on a D&D ancient (or older) dragon.

Is it possible for non-superhuman characters to take on something the size of a small jetliner?

[JCurwen3]

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

Do bear in mind how much of a challenge you want the dragon to be. A dragon as big as a jetliner may be true to high-level D&D play, but will crush most non-supers (even high-cp non-supers) PCs in GURPS.

So a dragon in D&D that's the size of a jetliner, may be the size of a house in GURPS.

I want them to be as massive and powerful as they would realistically be based on their sizes as listed in the Monstrous Manual (2nd Ed). If that means even a fairly large number of high point level non-supers couldn't beat one... I'm happy with that outcome.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

And that's okay. It suits the story you're trying to tell.

I'm talking about converting directly from D&D to GURPS. The rule of thumb is "75cp + 25cp/level." A level 20 character is 575cp, roughly. How well would such a party do against a dragon converted directly over from D&D?

A 575 point character, with a few million dollars in magic items, would probably do just fine against the dragon stats I gave. Actually, if someone has some examples of DF characters in the 500 point range, I'd be interested in seeing them.

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

Is it possible for non-superhuman characters to take on something the size of a small jetliner?

Since when are high-level D&D characters non-superhuman?

[Pragmatic]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Since when are high-level D&D characters non-superhuman?

D&D characters get into superhuman, and then veer into epicness (if they live that long). Do GURPS characters do that, as well?

From what I recall of mages, for instance, GURPS mages are more "buffers" and "utilitarians" than "blasters" and "controllers." How much damage can a GURPS mage reasonably expect to do in combat? And how often can they do it in a single combat (given fatigue limits)?

I'd really like to see an outline of what a typical GURPS mage at around 500cp looks like, and how much damage they could reasonably do. Do they have to have narrow focus (i.e., heavy on magery and other advantages, lots of points tossed into a few spells)?

[Nereidalbel]

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

D&D characters get into superhuman, and then veer into epicness (if they live that long). Do GURPS characters do that, as well?

From what I recall of mages, for instance, GURPS mages are more "buffers" and "utilitarians" than "blasters" and "controllers." How much damage can a GURPS mage reasonably expect to do in combat? And how often can they do it in a single combat (given fatigue limits)?

I'd really like to see an outline of what a typical GURPS mage at around 500cp looks like, and how much damage they could reasonably do. Do they have to have narrow focus (i.e., heavy on magery and other advantages, lots of points tossed into a few spells)?

The biggest limit to what a mage can do is the GM setting a cap on Magery. If Magery is capped, no amount of CP will boost their damage.

Uncapped? Magery 30 can charge up a 90d [missile spell of choice] fairly quickly, and even have some Fatigue Regeneration going for them.

[Pragmatic]

Originally Posted by Nereidalbel

The biggest limit to what a mage can do is the GM setting a cap on Magery. If Magery is capped, no amount of CP will boost their damage.

Uncapped? Magery 30 can charge up a 90d [missile spell of choice] fairly quickly, and even have some Fatigue Regeneration going for them.

Double-dip on Magery: every five Magery means not only more damage, but also 1 less FP, right?

And there's also Compartmentalized Mind, IIRC?

Then getting into the stuff that's in Thaumatology, IIRC. (Trading skill for... something or other...)

[Nereidalbel]

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

Double-dip on Magery: every five Magery means not only more damage, but also 1 less FP, right?

And there's also Compartmentalized Mind, IIRC?

Then getting into the stuff that's in Thaumatology, IIRC. (Trading skill for... something or other...)

It's every 5 *skill* means 1 less energy. Compartmentalized Mind lets you take 2 concentrates in 1 turn.

[combatmedic]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Then just make it a smaller dragon. If I'm going to put a 70' dragon in an adventure, it's going to have stats appropriate to something 70' long.

I'm with Anthony on this one, although of course individual GMs may want and need a different approach.
YMMV