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Old 06-11-2013, 04:51 AM   #1
JCurwen3
 
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Default Ranking Attack Roll Margin of Success

Social Engineering, p. 31 has Expanded Influence Rolls. It ranks MoS for Influence Rolls as follows:

Margin of Success Reaction
+8 or more* Excellent
+5 to +7 Very Good
+1 to +4 Good
0 Neutral
-1 or -2 Poor
-3 or -4 Bad
-5 to -7 Very Bad
-8 or worse Disastrous

Is there a ranking in RAW or somewhere on these forums that's appropriate to rank the success of attack rolls? Or would someone like to suggest one? I think this could help to describe how good the hits of enemy combatants were, while still being able to roll their attack rolls in secret and not reveal too much about their actual skill levels.

It would start with 0, which is just hit. In Pyramid #3/34: Alternate GURPS (p. 28), T Bone suggests considering them grazes, including effects like halving damage and doubling opponent DR. I use and like this rule.

Aside from MoS 0, I guess I've never kept track of MoS for attack rolls before, and am not sure how high they can be between two reasonably competent combatants.
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Old 06-11-2013, 08:57 AM   #2
Captain Joy
 
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Default Re: Ranking Attack Roll Margin of Success

Quote:
Originally Posted by JCurwen3 View Post
Is there a ranking in RAW or somewhere on these forums that's appropriate to rank the success of attack rolls? Or would someone like to suggest one? I think this could help to describe how good the hits of enemy combatants were, while still being able to roll their attack rolls in secret and not reveal too much about their actual skill levels.

It would start with 0, which is just hit. In Pyramid #3/34: Alternate GURPS (p. 28), T Bone suggests considering them grazes, including effects like halving damage and doubling opponent DR. I use and like this rule.

Aside from MoS 0, I guess I've never kept track of MoS for attack rolls before, and am not sure how high they can be between two reasonably competent combatants.
By RAW, to my knowledge, the MoS on attack rolls generally has no game effect, with the exception of critical misses, critical hits, and T Bone's optional graze rule.

Another situation might occur when defenses get really high. I believe these were 3rd ed. rules and I'm not sure about the specifics, but it was suggest that combats be handled as a contest of skills of attack vs defense. This might not be exactly what you were asking about, but I thought it might interest you.

I would add that using an attack roll's margin of success (MoS) to determine its effectiveness might render the need to roll damage superfluous. As an example, you might house rule that a MoS by 0 does 1 point of damage; a MoS by 1 does 10% maximum damage; a MoS by 2 does 20% max...; a MoS by 10+ does full maximum damage.

Another idea I've heard is allowing vitals hits after the fact. I.e. if your MoS is 3+ then you hit vitals.

In summary, there are two obvious ways that attack roll MoS could be implemented:
  1. Gives a penalty to a foe's defenses.
  2. Gives a bonus to your damage.
Beyond that you might add little goodies at various MoS like weapon doesn't become unready, you get an extra attack, you get a bonus to your dodge, you get a bonus to your next attack, etc.

Last edited by Captain Joy; 06-11-2013 at 09:42 AM. Reason: punctuation, spelliing
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Old 06-11-2013, 11:54 AM   #3
Ze'Manel Cunha
 
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Default Re: Ranking Attack Roll Margin of Success

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Originally Posted by JCurwen3 View Post
I think this could help to describe how good the hits of enemy combatants were, while still being able to roll their attack rolls in secret and not reveal too much about their actual skill levels.
Do you want to substitute MoS for damage rolls altogether?

From the Crit table we have up to triple damage in the RAW, which happens on a
Crit roll on a Crit/+10 MoS.

Margin of Success Result
-1 to -2 barely contact, 0 dmg, +2 to defense roll
0 a graze, 1 dmg, +2 to defense roll
+1, flesh wound, min dmg -1, +1 to defense roll
+2, barely hit, min dmg, +1 to defense roll
+3, dmg as if rolled all 2s
+4 to +5, dmg as if rolled all 3s
+6 to +7, dmg as if rolled all 4s, -1 to defense roll
+7 to +8, dmg as if rolled all 5s, -1 to defense roll
+9 to +10, dmg as if rolled all 6s, -2 to defense roll
+11 to +13, dmg as if rolled all 6s, -2 to defense roll
+14 to +17, dmg as if rolled all 6s, halve DR, -3 to defense roll
+18 to +21, dmg as if rolled all 6s, halve DR, -3 to defense roll
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Old 06-11-2013, 12:05 PM   #4
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Default Re: Ranking Attack Roll Margin of Success

If memory serves, an MoS of less than shield DB == the shield was hit, and takes damage accordingly. Might be just an optional rule, though.
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Old 06-11-2013, 12:35 PM   #5
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Default Re: Ranking Attack Roll Margin of Success

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If memory serves, an MoS of less than shield DB == the shield was hit, and takes damage accordingly. Might be just an optional rule, though.
That's a result of margin of success on a defense roll.
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Old 06-11-2013, 01:05 PM   #6
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Default Re: Ranking Attack Roll Margin of Success

I use contest rolls and margin of success to see if attacks connect.

Block = Shield skill + DB
Parry= Weapon Skill
Dodge = 2 x Basic Speed

Attacker and defender both roll their respected rolls and compare margin of successes. Depending on defending tactics:

Dodge - if attacker or defender wins by +0 or +1 in their favor, treat is as a flesh wound (1 point of basic damage)

Parry - if attacker or defender wins by +0 or +1 margin in their favor, strike weapon

Block 1 - If attacker won but margin of success didn't exceed defender's shield DB (+1 to +3) attacker strikes the shield. It would connect if shield wasn't in the way.

Block 2 - If defender won but only by a margin of successes provided by his shield DB (+1 to +3) shield is struck. It would connect if shield wasn't in the way.
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Old 06-11-2013, 01:57 PM   #7
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Default Re: Ranking Attack Roll Margin of Success

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Originally Posted by Orochi-art View Post
I use contest rolls and margin of success to see if attacks connect.

Block = Shield skill + DB
Parry= Weapon Skill
Dodge = 2 x Basic Speed

Attacker and defender both roll their respected rolls and compare margin of successes. Depending on defending tactics:

Dodge - if attacker or defender wins by +0 or +1 in their favor, treat is as a flesh wound (1 point of basic damage)

Parry - if attacker or defender wins by +0 or +1 margin in their favor, strike weapon

Block 1 - If attacker won but margin of success didn't exceed defender's shield DB (+1 to +3) attacker strikes the shield. It would connect if shield wasn't in the way.

Block 2 - If defender won but only by a margin of successes provided by his shield DB (+1 to +3) shield is struck. It would connect if shield wasn't in the way.
...so you make shields useless for Parry and Dodge defenses?
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Old 06-11-2013, 03:16 PM   #8
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Default Re: Ranking Attack Roll Margin of Success

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Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
...so you make shields useless for Parry and Dodge defenses?
No. I still allow shield DB on parry and dodge defenses. I wanted three different effects for cinematic purposes.

dodge - slash across the arm, cheek etc
parry - clash of weapons
shield - bash on the shield.

Although shield DB on dodge is still a debate. My Shield makes me dodge better There are arguments for and against.
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Old 06-11-2013, 03:53 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Orochi-art View Post
No. I still allow shield DB on parry and dodge defenses. I wanted three different effects for cinematic purposes.
You included '+DB' in the block defense line but not the parry or dodge lines. Is that an error, or does it mean something?

Also, the Block 1 and Block 2 descriptions appear to do the same thing. "attacker strikes the shield" vs "shield is struck"...
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Old 06-11-2013, 04:26 PM   #10
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Default Re: Ranking Attack Roll Margin of Success

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
You included '+DB' in the block defense line but not the parry or dodge lines. Is that an error, or does it mean something?
I included DB in Block description to make a distinction what are triggers and consequences.

In my point of view you are using shield as a helping hand during dodging and parrying. While during Block shield has a possibility to take a full force of a blow. Different ways of using it.

You can use shield during parry and dodge but for cinematic reasons only consequences are:

dodge - slash across the arm, cheek etc
parry - clash of weapons

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
Also, the Block 1 and Block 2 descriptions appear to do the same thing. "attacker strikes the shield" vs "shield is struck"...
They do the same thing but it comes from two different sources. When attacker has a upper hand and when defender has an upper hand. I only wanted to extend the definition in case someone has doubts does it work in both ways.

Example 1: Aggressor attacks for 4 MoS. Defender uses DB 2 shield and has Mos 2. Difference is +2 in favor of attacker. But shield has DB 2. Shield is struck

Example 2: Aggressor attacks for 2 MoS. Defender uses DB 2 shield and has Mos 4. Difference is +2 in favor of defender. With shield having DB 2 he needs to put it in a way to intercept the blow. He wasn't able to deflect it. Shield is struck

Last edited by Orochi-art; 06-11-2013 at 04:31 PM.
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