Setup Attacks and Feints

[Varyon]

Pyramid #3/52 introduces us to Setup Attacks, which are basically "best of both worlds" Feints - you get to impose a penalty on your foe's next defense while actually attacking him now. You get to have your cake and eat it too, and the whole affair makes Feints a much less viable combat option. My solution? Model feints using the (much better IMO) Setup Attack mechanics, but give a boost compared to actually attacking. My Initiative system has Feints take less time to pull off, but that's a pretty large, complex system just for this - and honestly, the reduction probably isn't significant enough to make up for the fact that Setup Attacks allow you to actually harm your target and force them to burn up a defense. The below is a better option (and if you want to try out the Initiative system, feel free to combine the effects).

Feints/Beats/Ruses are treated as a special case of Setup Attacks - roll Feint, and your target defends using his best Parry score (this doesn't "use up" a Parry; for Beats and Ruses the target can substitute ST or Per for DX, as appropriate). Unlike Setup Attacks, Feints are (typically) done unpenalized - instead, divide MoS by 2 (round down) to determine the imposed defense penalty. MoS 0 or 1 impose a -1, but MoS 0 on the target's defense is sufficient to negate this (optionally, one can extend this, with a odd-numbered MoS giving an additional -1 to defend, but only if the foe fails outright). For example, if a character with Broadsword-18 opted to Feint and rolled a 12, the total penalty would be -3. Optionally, you can also give Feints a more favorable exchange rate than true Setup Attacks - -1 per -1 would mean if the character above had opted to drop Broadsword to 14, the penalty would have been a -5 instead (-4 for -4 to skill, -1 for MoS 2).
The first case above basically means Feints are retroactive Setup Attacks - you essentially get to set your attack penalty after you've made the roll, and can exceed the "no lower than 10" threshold. That alone may be enough to give Feints a leg up, or you can include the second bit - although I feel the second bit is a bit more prone to abuse (particularly with Luck!), so it should be used with caution.

I also ran this system by Douglas Cole, the original author of the Pyramid article (primarily to insure I hadn't accidentally given away too much of the Setup Attack mechanic - if you want to use that and this variant, be certain to buy that issue!). He had an excellent idea for a different way to handle Feints in this system.

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

Perhaps what you can do, though, is give a bonus for "stepwise" reductions in damage potential. Say, every -1 per die to damage is +2 to the attacker's skill, with steps being -1 per die, -2 per die, and no damage. That would represent pulling the blow, and would penalize a reduced swing and a reduced thrust equally (since swung feints will tend to lose more damage than thrusts).

This works best if you're Converting Adds to Dice. It may be appropriate to require the character to turn all bonuses into a Setup (that is, with no damage you have to automatically trade in the +6 for a -3), but this isn't strictly necessary.
EDIT: I failed to include the full context of Douglas' comment - this is for using Feints as Setup Attacks as-is (no MoS effects, must take penalty up front, 2:1 exchange rate). Combining this with my above options would be going too far!


In addition to the above, a character can use a non-combat or support skill (Acrobatics, Fast Draw, etc) for a Setup "Attack." This is only an option if the skill is being used to actually set up an attack on the same turn - for example, a character using an Acrobatic Attack could penalize his Acrobatics check to impose a later defense penalty, while a character drawing a sword to strike with it could penalize his Fast Draw check to impose a later defense penalty. This Setup "Attack" isn't a true attack and is defended against as a Feint, above, would be. Additionally, even if failure on the Setup would normally allow an attack (say, preceding the attack with an Evade), failure invalidates the whole set and at best results in the character choosing Do Nothing (someone trying to use Fast Draw as a setup would fail to draw their weapon at all on a failure). It is possible to "stack" multiple such Setups in a single action, provided the GM allows for Stacked Setups to start with. As an example, a character with Acrobatics-18, Holdout-18, Fast Draw (Knife)-18, and Knife 20 could opt to use Heroic Charge to do a roll while drawing a knife from a concealed wrist-sheath and stabbing at the target's Vitals. This would be an Acrobatics Setup followed by a Holdout Setup (if allowed, this replaces the rules for Hidden Weapons from DF2) followed by a Fast Draw Setup, finishing up with an Acrobatic Attack, all in the same action. In this case, everything has a base -2 for Acrobatic Attack, so if the character opted to drop every setup skill to 12 and succeeded at all of them, each would impose a -2 (allowing a defense to reduce/negate this in each case), for a potential total of -6, against the character's final Knife-11 (-2 Acrobatic Attack, -4 Move and Attack, -3 for targeting the Vitals) attack. The GM may allow (or require) some support skills to function more like Ruses (in the above case, Holdout would be such a skill). Being able to use a skill in this manner may require a Perk, in which case characters who have a Perk to be able to use certain skills for Feints/Ruses (Acrobatic Feint, Sexy Feint, etc) should be able to use those same skills for Setups.

[Varyon]

Over on his blog, Douglas Cole posted an update to his suggestion, and honestly the more I think about it the more I feel it's a better option than my suggestions.

To ape a bit from his new musings, I'd say you can get +1 to skill for -1/die (-29%), +2 to skill for -2/die (-57%), +3 to skill for -3/die (-86%), or +4 to skill for 0 damage (-100%). With the +4 option, you can choose between touching your foe or not striking at all (a Feint). Each has its benefits and drawbacks - a touch can deliver touch effects and can force the foe to use up a defense but opens you up to things like Beats, Counter Attacks, Stop Hits, Aggressive Parries, and so forth, while a Feint can't do the above but carries no risk (and takes less time in my Initiative system). Realistically, the +1, +2, and +3 options may not be available - I've personally found that checking my strikes when practicing is pretty tough to do when trying to do something but not hit full-force (a touch is indeed easier than a real strike, however).

Also, so that this is less of a shameless bump to get this thread off the third page, I've decided to apply a similar trend to Spinning (Attack). In Martial Arts, this is pretty much a horrible idea unless you greatly outclass your foe - which is probably accurate. Rather than using Martial Arts' method, however, I suggest treating the attack as a support skill Setup followed by an actual attack. In each case, use Spinning (Attack) for the roll. This is just like a typical support skill Setup, but your foe's initial defense can, with high enough MoS, actually result in a defense bonus. Also, unlike MA's version, you do not have to take the same penalty to each [EDIT]roll[/EDIT] of the attack - a character with Spinning Kick 20 could use skill 12 on the spin and do a Deceptive (-2/-1) attack to the Face (-5) at skill 13 for the kick. As with other support Setups, failing at the initial roll invalidates the maneuver - and in this case calls for a DX roll to stay standing! Particularly in a cinematic campaign, you could combine this with other support skill Setups (most appropriately Acrobatics).

Extending this still more, you could even use it to replace the contest for Stop Hits. In this case, when doing a Stop Hit you roll against your normal attack skill as a support Setup. The primary difference from a normal such Setup are that if your foe succeeds enough to completely negate the penalty, then both you and your foe suffer a -1 to defense, while if your foe succeeds by more than this you suffer a penalty equal to the difference and your foe has no penalty (if you imposed a -3 and your foe had enough MoS to negate -5, you suffer -2 and he suffers nothing). Secondarily, you still get to make an attack if you fail at the initial Setup, but your foe still defends against your Setup normally and you suffer a defense penalty equal to his MoS (treat MoS 0 as MoS 1).


The primary advantage of all the above is that it takes four different mechanisms (Feints, Setup Attacks, Spinning Attacks, and Stop Hits) that all represent a similar idea and use the easiest mechanism of the lot (Setup Attacks) for all three, with some minor variations. In the mix, we also get to add in some new options, like touch attacks and support Setups, without really adding any further complication.