Psi Sense and Passive Abilities

[adam1234]

Is a character with a passive psionic ability detected by psi sense when that ability is "used"?

For example, a character has "Regeneration (Fast) (Psionic Healing, -10%)", is wounded, and regen kicks in. Would that trigger the Psi Sense of a nearby enemy?

The GM rolls against your skill (minus range penalties, p. B550) whenever anyone near you uses or is the target of psi.

The question is whether the passive ability counts as "uses" (I would guess not) or being the target of (I would also guess not).

Thoughts?

[DangerousThing]

I would certainly count a passive ability kicking in as "uses".

[Crystalline_Entity]

For something like Regeneration (Fast) (Psionic Healing, -10%) which is either "working" or "not working" at any given time, I'd say if it was currently regenerating HP it would count as "active" for detection purposes.

Now you've asked the question, I'm not sure how I'd rule for something with the Reflexive enhancement though; is it considered "active" all the time? Hmm. Can someone with Psi Sense detect someone else with Psi Sense?

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by adam1234

Is a character with a passive psionic ability detected by psi sense when that ability is "used"?

For example, a character has "Regeneration (Fast) (Psionic Healing, -10%)", is wounded, and regen kicks in. Would that trigger the Psi Sense of a nearby enemy?

The question is whether the passive ability counts as "uses" (I would guess not) or being the target of (I would also guess not).

Thoughts?

A couple :)
First (and most important) - You should check with Kromm if you want the real, straight dope on such questions. When there aren't hard rules or when the answer isn't obvious, it's best to go right to the source!

Second - Natch, I have ideas about answers ;) Psi Sense detects "Psionic Activity". That suggests to me that it only picks up active use, so passive abilities would only be detected if (and when) they were used actively. Regeneration is kind of a funny case, but your example build would be completely passive by the book, so not detectable. If it had Costs Fatigue (making it more like an active ability), you might rule otherwise. Just for fun, I might allow an 'active' use of Psi Sense to detect passive abilities, but I do not believe that is the actual intention. That seems to be what Psidar is for.

[David Johnston2]

I would not call Regeneration rapidly mending your flesh a passive use of psi powers any more than I'd call Healing with No Conscious Control a passive use of psi. I might exact a TDM for it though.

[spacemonkey]

Being vulnerable to psionic negation and detection is why the player gets -10% discount, isn't it?

[Plane]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

I would not call Regeneration rapidly mending your flesh a passive use of psi powers any more than I'd call Healing with No Conscious Control a passive use of psi. I might exact a TDM for it though.

P153 describes passive as "activate without the owner’s input in a specific situation"

It then goes in to explain how complicated it can be, like:
1) a single advantage can give both passive and active abilities
2) a single ability can have both passive and active ASPECTS

The "Aura" example seems like a good one:

turning on a switchable ability (e.g., Growth, Mind Shield, or any attack with Aura) counts as an active use, even if the ensuing effects are passive.

That said, I don't know how far outside the standard "use a free action to turn on your aura" this is meant to go. Like for example if you took reflexible or Uncontrollable if that would count.

we have DR out there with requires IQ roll (psi powers) still called passive, even though it's kind of implied that the choice to make the roll is yours, the choice to spend FP to retry a failed is yours...

P156 also has the "for an active use of a passive ability" gem too, which I'm thinking is probably Power Block

[Daigoro]

It says, "whenever anyone near you uses [psi]," which makes no reference to that use being active or passive.

I believe the designation of being active or passive is important for GURPS game mechanics in terms of what counts as a maneuvre, how many actions a character gets and so on. I would be leery of reading that as having a wider, more general, in-universe meaning.

[Plane]

Originally Posted by Daigoro

It says, "whenever anyone near you uses [psi]," which makes no reference to that use being active or passive.

I believe the designation of being active or passive is important for GURPS game mechanics in terms of what counts as a maneuvre, how many actions a character gets and so on. I would be leery of reading that as having a wider, more general, in-universe meaning.

P163 has the contrast basically under in two spots:

1. the left column under (2.)

If it's passive then only "special senses" can detect it. Active use abilities need to specify at least one of the four normal senses (vision/hearing/touch/smell) which can detect it.

Taste doesn't get mentioned so I'm thinking that folds into smell or is considered too niche.

2. the middle column under "Obvious Effects"

"isn't totally passive" is one of the three possible ways for avoiding this standard requirement:

buyer must describe a set of effects that are obvious to one or more ordinary human senses

The other two are:

* isn’t based on a .. trait with explicitly invisible effects (including "mental-influence advantages" with two examples given: Mind Reading and Mind Control)
* isn’t enhanced with No Signature

The phrasing could be summarized like this:

"If A isn’t E, isn't P and isn't N, then B"

Since A being B requires it not be E or P or N, any of E/P/N being true would mean that A is not B.

Lacking "No Signature" is the most obvious: that is all advantages by default, you just need to know if it's a modifier.

"Explicitly invisible" is a little subtler: it that truly meant to be "invisible" (can't be seen) or perhaps more broadly undetectable to other senses too?

"Totally passive" is also a little subtler: the use of the word "totally" implies some kind of higher requirement, like it acknowledges you can have ~sorta-passive but not TOTALLY~ abilities (like Aura)

P164 also uses the "totally":

Abilities that aren’t currently in use, or totally passive ones, are never detectable except with a specialty of Detect specifically designed to identify individuals who have those abilities.

The issue I think is maybe we don't necessarily have the clearest idea for every advantage which ones are "totally passive" vs perhaps just "semi-passive".

Armor of Faith (MH1p43: No Signature -20% in 2011) vs Force Dome (PAWSp9:Visible-10% in 2016) versions of DR would be another fun thing to dabble in.

I think that contrast could be resolved in remembering there's actually 2 forms of No Signature on B106, which gets weird because without separate names there might be some guesswork as to which one is intended when NS is listed. It's weird since it's written for an "attack", not DR.

My guess for how this could make sense is that if we assume wild DR functions like having the 1st type of No Signature: "almost completely unnoticeable" rather than "utterly undetectable by normal means, but leaves a magical or psionic trace"

I would think the latter might actually fall under one of the -5% "countermeasures" aspects of those power modifiers... but maybe not?

Armor of Faith taking -20% could be intended maybe to make it the "best of both No Signatures" where it's both utterly undetectable AND doesn't leave a trace?

Whereas Force Dome could basically be removing the "almost completely unnoticeable" inherent aspect of DR by making it translucent, which is not near enough to "completely" to be called "almost".

P103 also mentions that: "If the ability is obvious and traceable, buy the enhancement twice"

I'm thinking maybe we could call these something like "No Obvious Signature" and "No Traceable Signature" ?

That said I think the -10% mana-sensitive with the -5% countermeasures built into it makes "Detect Magic" stuff able to detect force walls... so does the -10% "Mystic" power modifier give that to Mysticism Abilities except Armor of Faith because it cancels that out?