Star Wars: Imperial Stormtroopers

[Agramer]

Well ,anyhow if I was GMing SW universe I would make Stormies tough as nails.

Players should have healthy respect of them,otherwise where is challenge?

They can have fun smacking cops,militias,Imperial army but when Stormies show up its going to be tough to stay alive.

250 pts, prec parry wpn master+enhanced parry + super jump,Jedi can still mop floor with several of them(to reflect parrying from movies just treat Force swords as fencing weapons=combined with W.Master ::> -1 to parry/parry ... -3/rapid strike)

[Rocket Man]

Originally Posted by pawsplay

Indeed. Somehow, many people manage to overlook the fact that in the first five minutes of the original Star Wars movie, we watch Stormtroopers wipe the floor with the crew of the Tantive IV. Not only do the Stormtroopers not flinch under fire, they appear to outshoot the Rebels. One of them manages to stun Leia, too. In Empire, they hold their own in the Battle of Hoth and their mere presence forces the residents of Bespin to submit. Oh, yeah... and on Hoth, the Stormtroopers won. Actually, the Stormtroopers lose only one battle in the entirety of the original trilogy... at the end RotJ, they are overwhelmed by sheer numbers of cannibalistic teddy bears led by a squad of elite Rebel commandoes. Every other battle results in a Rebel rout.

And yet, no one makes jokes about the Rebel Academy of Honorable Retreat and Surrender...

An excellent point. For that matter, think about the moments in which the Rebels DO out-shoot them.

The classic one may be the Death Star shootout in the midst of Episode IV. Basically, you have a small band of terrorists suddenly appearing in the midst of a forward operating base ... and one that's just completed a successful operation at that, and has no reason to believe organized enemies are anywhere nearby. These aren't troops on the battlefield who are on the alert and ready to go. They're on their down time in the garrison, abruptly faced with an unanticipated enemy on what's supposed to be "safe territory."

I submit that MOST troops wouldn't be at their best under these circumstances.

[Phantasm]

Two recent books to read when dealing with Stormtroopers: Allegiance, and Death Star. Both deal with things from the Imperial perspective, and give some indication as to how the troops of the Original Trilogy era think and react.

Another good source is Tales From The Mos Eisley Cantina, particularly the Stormtrooper's Tale.

Basically, while the original Stormtroopers were highly-trained clone soldiers, the later ones are the primary infantry force, and not all of them were volunteers. Remember that the Empire relied mainly on doctrines of fear and numbers; you don't need highly-trained infantry to achieve that, just a horde of faceless mooks. The stormtrooper armor's main goal is not to keep the soldier alive, but to make him anonymous to the populace, a faceless arm of the Empire's will. The mere presence of stormtroopers can make others get out of the way; their reputation precedes them.

Now, some units (specifically the 501st, aka Vader's Fist) were composed of the best of the best, and these can be considered "elite" troops comparable to today's Navy SEALs. They might even have better armor than what is issued to the normal stormies, but I'm not sure to what degree.

As for Endor, while the Emperor bragged that the soldiers there were "an entire legion of my best troops", he may have been exaggerating to entice Luke. I sincerely doubt he hand-picked the troops, simply telling Moff Jerjerrod to "use the best troops you can find". (As the majority of the 501st were on the first Death Star when it blew, we can assume that the ones on Endor were from the replacement 501st on the Executor, who may not have had the same experience and training as the originals.)

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by pawsplay

Actually, the Stormtroopers lose only one battle in the entirety of the original trilogy... at the end RotJ, they are overwhelmed by sheer numbers of cannibalistic teddy bears led by a squad of elite Rebel commandoes.

Nitpick... There is no evidence of cannibalism in the Ewok society.

Anthrophagy, sure. But never cannibalism.

[martinl]

Originally Posted by pawsplay

Indeed. Somehow, many people manage to overlook the fact that in the first five minutes of the original Star Wars movie, we watch Stormtroopers wipe the floor with the crew of the Tantive IV. Not only do the Stormtroopers not flinch under fire, they appear to outshoot the Rebels. One of them manages to stun Leia, too.

Those are ship crew and a diplomat. IASTR said diplomat punked one of them with a pistol.

In Empire, they hold their own in the Battle of Hoth

This means that the rebs gave a good show of it despite massive disparity in materiel.

and their mere presence forces the residents of Bespin to submit.

Civilians tend to do that when their own army + a prominent political figure show up and start giving orders.

Oh, yeah... and on Hoth, the Stormtroopers won. Actually, the Stormtroopers lose only one battle in the entirety of the original trilogy... at the end RotJ, they are overwhelmed by similar numbers of cannibalistic TL 0 teddy bears accompanied by a squad of disorganized Rebel commandos.

Fixed that. Certainly the TBs didn't outnumber them too bad - there were a lot of STs there. Compare redcoats vs. Zulus, a smaller tech difference vs. a larger opponent.

And yet, no one makes jokes about the Rebel Academy of Honorable Retreat and Surrender...

The rebs were massively outgunned almost every time; in traditional guerrilla fashion, they ran when they hit regulars.

Stormtroopers fail in their intended goal as scary faceless elite troops because they are frequently treated as mooks by the main characters. And TL 0 SM-1 teddy bears. It's hard to keep your dignity when you're a mook. In using them for that dramatic role, Lucas seriously undermined their cred.

Now, I can see running a SW campaign were the STs weren't mooks, but it would seriously alter the flavor of the original.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Agramer

Well ,anyhow if I was GMing SW universe I would make Stormies tough as nails.

Players should have healthy respect of them,otherwise where is challenge?

They can have fun smacking cops,militias,Imperial army but when Stormies show up its going to be tough to stay alive.

250 pts, prec parry wpn master+enhanced parry + super jump,Jedi can still mop floor with several of them(to reflect parrying from movies just treat Force swords as fencing weapons=combined with W.Master ::> -1 to parry/parry ... -3/rapid strike)

I agree with this.

Well, except that the jedis seen in the movies were probably higher point value than this. Closer to 500 points for the standard one.

Force powers don't come cheap and they are stronger, faster, smarter and healthier than average too.

[AmesJainchill]

Originally Posted by martinl

Now, I can see running a SW campaign were the STs weren't mooks, but it would seriously alter the flavor of the original.

I'm doing that right now.

Personally, it depends.

For an elite unit that's been fighting for a long time, I'd take the S.E.A.L. template from GURPS S.E.A.L.s in Vietnam, adjust the skills mix to reflext TL10 and general shock troops instead of aquatic special forces.
I'd make ratings for seatroopers, radtroopers, snowtroopers, scout troopers, etc. For a less experienced unit, I'd lower the skill levels.

[Dragondog]

In the Dawn of Defiance campaign for Saga Star Wars they do use less experienced Stormtroopers as foes in the first adventure.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by AmesJainchill

I'm doing that right now.

Personally, it depends.

For an elite unit that's been fighting for a long time, I'd take the S.E.A.L. template from GURPS S.E.A.L.s in Vietnam, adjust the skills mix to reflext TL10 and general shock troops instead of aquatic special forces.
I'd make ratings for seatroopers, radtroopers, snowtroopers, scout troopers, etc. For a less experienced unit, I'd lower the skill levels.

That sounds like a bunch of trouble. The only thing you have left on the SEAL template when you remove the aquatic special forces thing is high attributes, high Soldier and Tactics and decent combat skills (really just resulting from the attributes).

So why not start with those instead of going through the template? Shock troops, especially veteran shock troops, are very different from special operators and for one thing, they don't need nearly as much IQ because they won't have as many IQ-based skills. Their physical attributes, though, may well be higher, as may their weapon skills.

The SEAL template in GURPS SEALS in Vietnam isn't an experienced SEAL, though. It's for a newly arrived SEAL. So an elite unit of shock troops that's been fighting a long time might have more Gunner and Guns, more Soldier, more Tactics, more Fearlessness and more Will; but probably nowhere near that breadth of skill.

They'll not be trained to operate independently or infiltrate through any terrain. They might have Stealth and Camouflage, as well as Observation and decent Per, just from experience, but will generally not have Survival training in a whole bunch of specialities or the Naturalist. They'll be trained for the terrain they are in and where they've been, which might well have only been artificial habitats and cities.

[Agramer]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Well, except that the jedis seen in the movies were probably higher point value than this. Closer to 500 points for the standard one.

Force powers don't come cheap and they are stronger, faster, smarter and healthier than average too.

True, 250 pts Jedi = Padawan (still can take out few of them).

Another thing is that I seriously doubt someone is going to play Star Wars universe at 150 char points level and not ,at minimum, be top Bounty Hunter,Smuggler,Padawan ...etc

Originally Posted by someone

Where did you got those skill values?

This are skill values,by Kromm, from GURPS Wizards :

Originally Posted by GURPS Wizards book 3e

Skill 12 Beginner: Good enough to get most regular jobs (e.g., accountant,
librarian or scribe).
Skill 14 Competent: The minimum "safe" level for risky jobs (e.g., assassin,
politician or surgeon).
Skill 16+ Expert: A reasonable level for someone who is meant to stand
out in his field.

So based on that Stormies should be Competent at minimum (after all theyre picked from much larger mass of Imperial Army and had to finish Stormie Academy)

Originally Posted by martinl

Those are ship crew and a diplomat. IASTR said diplomat punked one of them with a pistol.

Just watched that scene:

"Diplomat"(Leia) ambushed them and droped 1 ... and was immediately droped down with stun shoot(Stormie had to change setting from kill to stun = fast draw? and smoked her with single shoot)

Id say ,guys with helmets were Diplomats(Leias) security detail,guards..etc

They were uniformed.Shiny leather boots (up to knees) point at ceremonial dress and not combat utility.Comfortable uniform and "breastplates" +helmets only could "confirm" assumption that theyre security detail and not military unit(They doned those as emergency and werent supposed to confront true military details).

Lack of ship crews appearance can be attributed to them being non-combatants "hugging their bunks"/running with escape pods ... etc

Also Alderaan is demilitarised planet,so no military.But they do have police,swat,state security...etc

Planetary Princess + member of Senate Status 6 person should/would/must have her own security detail.

You could look at them as USA Secret service,presidents bodyguards/security detail.

If Secret Service was attacked by Veteran/Elite military unit of same numerical size,Secret Service would lose due disparity of equipment/weapons.

IMO,there aint single Secret Service agent with Guns(pistol) skill below 14,with majority at 16+.

So if looking from that angle,those Stormies who stormed Leias ship were Elite(above mentioned Vaders 501st).



Question = May I copy/paste small samples of data from GURPs books like above or is it against forum rules?