Dungeon Fantasy RPG All-Out Attack (Double) Question

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Torvsen

Is this correct?

Totes legit if you weren't in a DFRPG game...

Originally Posted by Torvsen

Well, MA127 begs to differ

DFRPG doesn't allow in the rules from Martial Arts and it doesn't use Extra Effort In Combat from Basic.


If you want to "Flurry of Blows" in DFRPG you have to do it the hard way, Will roll giving +5% times MoS to your DX... now I argue that it's a Skill based Will roll, others cry "THAT"S TOO MUNCKINNY!", but as the text is a bit vague, that's a discussion between you and your fellow gaming group members.



[EDIT]
Basically what we have here is the ever dreaded "GURPS Rules Bias" creeping in. It can take some time to unpack all those 'inherent' rules you've gotten used and dial back to where DFRPG thinks you should be.
[/EDIT]

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Torvsen

Is this correct?

Both flurry of blows and making more than two attacks with rapid strike are optional rules that are only applicable at the GMs discretion, and they aren't mentioned in DF. As such, even in a standard game, clear them with the GM before doing them. If the GM is surprised by optional rules you're using, you're doing something wrong.

[mlangsdorf]

Originally Posted by Torvsen

Well, MA127 begs to differ

"In a cinematic campaign – especially a chambara or wuxia one – the GM may wish to allow more than two attacks with a Rapid Strike."

The most important part of that sentence is "the GM may wish to allow." It's not a default part of the rule set. It's not even an optional rule that is often in place, like hit locations. It is an extremely optional rule for some cinematic campaigns.

Did you ask the GM if that particular optional rule was in place?

[mlangsdorf]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

Totes legit if you weren't in a DFRPG game...

If you want to "Flurry of Blows" in DFRPG you have to do it the hard way, Will roll giving +5% times MoS to your DX... now I argue that it's a Skill based Will roll, others cry "THAT"S TOO MUNCKINNY!", but as the text is a bit vague, that's a discussion between you and your fellow gaming group members.

That isn't how Extra Effort works in DFRPG and I wouldn't call it munchkinny so much as an extrapolation that isn't particularly supported by the text.

"Success adds 5% times margin of success (minimum +5%) to weight lifted, distance jumped, speed attained, etc. – or to ST, if it governs the task directly." Exploits p 20.

There's no provision there for increasing your DX through Extra Effort, just your ST. And given that ST is called out directly but DX isn't mentioned, there's no particular reason to think you can use extra effort to increase your DX.

[Andrew Hackard]

I moved this to the DFRPG forum so it's being discussed in the appropriate place, per the subject line of the message. Discussion about how these traits work in GURPS is off-topic.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Andrew Hackard

Discussion about how these traits work in GURPS is off-topic.

In that case none of that is allowed.

Is that the case though? Or is the OP using rules not found in DFRPG?

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by mlangsdorf

That isn't how Extra Effort works in DFRPG and I wouldn't call it munchkinny so much as an extrapolation that isn't particularly supported by the text.

"Success adds 5% times margin of success (minimum +5%) to weight lifted, distance jumped, speed attained, etc. – or to ST, if it governs the task directly." Exploits p 20.

There's no provision there for increasing your DX through Extra Effort, just your ST. And given that ST is called out directly but DX isn't mentioned, there's no particular reason to think you can use extra effort to increase your DX.

"speed attained"

So... speed attained is now a provision of ST is it? ;)


Now you can try to argue that this is specifically to cover "running faster" (which is legit straight from Basic), but since Extra Effort In Combat was wrongly* removed, I stand by my ruling.



* In my opinion. I know why Kromm stripped it, I simply disagree. Need something for my FP 14+ warrior types to spend FP on in combat after all...

[GWJ]

Originally Posted by Torvsen

As the guy, who was playing that character yesterday, let me explain:

It was All-Out Attack (Double) which gives two Attacks at full skill, leaving me defenseless.

I did two steps in the direction of the enemy and then made Rapid Strike, splitting the second Attack for 4 attacks (-18 each), using Flurry of Blows as per B357 (which makes the penalty -9 per attack), and my character has Weapon Master (additionally halving the penalty to -4)

So it makes 5 attacks, not 9

1st @ Full skill
2nd @ -4 to skill, -1 FP
3rd @ -4 to skill, -1 FP
4th @ -4 to skill, -1 FP
5th @ -4 to skill, -1 FP

No defenses allowed, -4FP in total.

Is this correct?

In "full" GURPS - yes, of course, everything od correct IMO.
In DFRPG - AFAIK no. If I'm bot wrong there is not "Extra Effort In Combat" in DFRPG, as well as aby other rules from outside DFRPG books.

[mlangsdorf]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

"speed attained"

So... speed attained is now a provision of ST is it?

Nope, speed is governed by Basic Speed, per the definitions on that page.

Extra effort lets you increase your ability to run fast, jump high or far, lift weights, and force doors or bend bars. It doesn't let you increase your DX in combat.

You can house-rule in back in, but the RAW is straightforward.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by mlangsdorf

Nope, speed is governed by Basic Speed, per the definitions on that page.

I wouldn't call that blurb "definitional". Especially after it points out that "many tasks are more specific". It's setting a 'baseline" from one is expected to derive additional specificity.

Extra effort lets you increase your ability to run fast, jump high or far, lift weights, and force doors or bend bars. It doesn't let you increase your DX in combat.

You can house-rule in back in, but the RAW is straightforward.

I'm sorry but you're explicitly cutting out the "etc" from that list.

However... having noted the "... feat of strength or speed can push the limits" line I can accept the argument that Extra Effort is being dialed back to only feats of ST and Basic Move (HT based Lifting being the lone exception).


I still shake my head at this, but c'est la vie.