Our group doesn't play by RAW and it's hard for me.

[Otaku]

Originally Posted by Wade

If I ever say anything to try to correct something (I'm a player), the GM and his wife give me crap for it stating, "1st rule of Gurps is that the GM can overrule anything."

Depending on your GM's sense of humor, a "houserule" of my old, high school gaming group may apply:

The GM is always right only when he's playing with by himself.

I would also like to point out that this likely arose after we'd all tried being the GM for our own, individual games. Now, it wasn't intended as carte blanche for players to constantly question the GM or distract the group with tangents. Something I was slow to accept I struggled with doing. XP

[Anaraxes]

Known rules and consistency in applying them is necessary for the players to understand what their characters can do, and so make reasonable choices about what to attempt or plan. I'd agree that the GM is the last word. But an RPG is a cooperative endeavor.

Maybe you can make this point to your GM. It's not that you're arguing with his decisions. It's just that you want to know ahead of time what's likely to happen in the game world. Otherwise, it's really hard to get into it and stay immersed.

[Wade]

Thanks for the suggestions.

I cannot GM though. A little story:

My cousin wanted to GM once. He went above and beyond. He set up candles and made the room all moody. We started out and he was doing an excellent job of acting out the characters. It was a typical cliche adventure. We went into the tavern and he was acting out the bartender all mysterious. We were getting excited. Then he blurts out, "Okay, guys, that's all I had readied." It was about 30 minutes. We still joke about that today.

I know I'd be like that if not worse. I don't think I could improvise well at all and I don't dare even try. Our GM does a fantastic job of that. He does a fantastic job of GMing overall and I appreciate it. It's just the rules that he struggles with. I just wish he'd let the table, me in particular, help manage that.

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

Maybe you can convince them to go back to 3rd edition? Or am I wrong in assuming they know that rule-set better?

[Wade]

Originally Posted by SilvercatMoonpaw

Maybe you can convince them to go back to 3rd edition? Or am I wrong in assuming they know that rule-set better?

Gosh...I don't know. I think it's about half and half right now...after playing 4th edition for 18 years? That just shouldn't be happening unintentionally. A 5th edition would help my cause right now. At least it would get the GM to look over the book.

[ericthered]

Originally Posted by Varyon

Option 2, Vetting: When you create your character, bring said character to the GM, and state the kinds of things you intend for the character to be able to do. Get confirmation that such things will work the way you expect them to work, so you don't show up with what you think is a great ability but the GM houserules into obsolescence. If the GM states your character won't work the way you want it to, rework the character until it does.

A comment on this: anytime a player is planning on doing something clever with a build, I appreciate them pointing it out. The more unexpected a rules interaction, the more likely I am to reflexively rule zero it. So walking over expected edge cases before the plot hangs on it is really nice for your GM. Its a good piece of advice for any player.

That said, I don't know what sort of rule hangups we're running into here. Some examples would be nice for this sort of advice.

[RGTraynor]

Originally Posted by ericthered

That said, I don't know what sort of rule hangups we're running into here. Some examples would be nice for this sort of advice.

And really, some clarification altogether. Is the GM refusing to disclose his houserules? Is it that he's making up rules on the spot? Is it that he's inconsistent, ruling one way this session and another last session?

[RGTraynor]

Originally Posted by Prince Charon

'Always' is probably an exaggeration, but the stereotype of the GM's SO is that she/he/they tend to not know the game well, and get overly indulged by the GM in ways that annoy the other players. A SO who knows the game and is actually helpful is a different situation, and possibly an unusual one. Personally, I don't recall ever gaming with a GM who had a significant other at the time (which doesn't mean that I didn't, but it's been long enough that I could have forgotten), though some of the other players have.

Oh, yes, I'm aware of the stereotype. And like many stereotypes, it's b-s-t. It is far from an "unusual" situation to have SOs be players like any other.

My very first group, 44 years ago, had a couple in it. Counting up all the married couples in my campaigns alone took me a while, but the total is seventeen. If I counted up the just-dating couples, that total would come close to trebling. I have never not had a mixed gender group, and likewise I've never played (nor would be much interested) in an all-male group ... and while I've GMed about ten times as often as I've played, I can think of numerous times where I was in the same party as the GM's SO ... and never saw untoward favoritism.

[Wade]

Originally Posted by ericthered

That said, I don't know what sort of rule hangups we're running into here. Some examples would be nice for this sort of advice.

There are too many rules to list. I have a 5 page list of rules we do wrong. I made it for a quick reference so we could get things right, but there's no way I could ever let him know about it.

I'll talk about the ones that get me the most though. I really like making a thief/spy type of character. My brother (the GM) tested his dice and he says they average an 8. He always rolls perception rolls against any thief/spy skills I use, and he rolls as many times as there are other NPCs. So if I'm sneaking past 3 people, he rolls 3 times against my roll. That's also if they're not "specifically on alert". So I don't have a chance to do any kind of stealthing without a skill of at least 16. The same thing happens with disguise, acting, pickpocket, camouflage, sleight of hand, etc.

He's also not familiar with many rules outside of ONLY THE MOST BASIC of rules. So if I want to do an All Out Attack and move half my move forward, he gets confused and questions me. So I try to show him in the book and he's just so resistant to it, almost always saying,"I don't like that." I think that's him trying to save his pride. He's a very prideful person. He feels inadequate if he doesn't know a rule and he just plays it against me instead of just going with it. This happens a LOT with tactical combat. His most recent is grappling an opponent. He got confused about the -4 penalty, thinking it went against both the grappler and the grappled. I tried to tell him is was just the grappled that got the -4 and he just got upset that I knew something he didn't and said he thinks it should be both characters. So there goes any grappler character! Waste of time to do that.

That's just a few examples of MANY. I'm at the point where I get really nervous to even speak up simply because it's not an easy conversation about rules like it should be. I've tried to recruit my other friend to help me, but either he's not paying attention when we play, or he's too afraid to bring it up too.

Originally Posted by RGTraynor

And really, some clarification altogether. Is the GM refusing to disclose his houserules? Is it that he's making up rules on the spot? Is it that he's inconsistent, ruling one way this session and another last session?

We only have a handful of house rules, that he consistently keeps in mind, at least. I'm too afraid to every bring up any others we've already discussed, like Cross Parries, Quick Shooting, Extra Effort options.

It's not so much that his ruling is inconsistent, it is, but not because he keeps changing his mind. It's more that he doesn't know the rules very well, so he's judging on the fly or just completely overlooking important details.

I don't know. I don't believe it's something I can do anything about. I have to just play basic rules and never try anything interesting. He's stubborn and prideful and the only way this will ever change is if he can take time and really dig into the book. Even then he'll miss things because Gurps is so deep. But he still won't allow me to help him get it right.

Oh, and the thing about his wife, she doesn't know jack about Gurps rules, but she'll never argue against him unless it's in her favor. If it's me bringing it up, she's 100% arguing against me siding with whatever he says.

It just kind of sucks. I just wish there was something...I wish it was easier.

[zoncxs]

There is something you can do. Show him this thread.