Unarmed parries while wielding a 2h weapon

[Verjigorm]

Martial arts does give us a lot of tools for this, however:
1) Defense attack. For excepting a modest damage malus, you can now parry and attack with a warhammer. And you also have a yard more reach.
2) Favorable parries for two-handed weapons. With -2 per parry, you cano defend very well as a polearm fighter.
3) Custom weapons. A Warhammer that can only do sw/imp is much weaker than a warhammer that can do Sw/Imp, Sw/Cr and possibly thrust/imp.
4) Armed Grapple, and everything that stems from it. Arm and leg locks with reach two weapons are nasty, and are easy to set up.
5) Hook.

Lots of ways to model realistic use of a warhammer. I just don't think that swinging a warhammer, and then switching to one handed use is very realistic. Halberd manuals don't show this, they show the weapon held staff-like, where the shaft can be used parry a great number of blows.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Verjigorm

Lots of ways to model realistic use of a warhammer. I just don't think that swinging a warhammer, and then switching to one handed use is very realistic. Halberd manuals don't show this, they show the weapon held staff-like, where the shaft can be used parry a great number of blows.

Obviously, when you mechanically switch back and forth within the space of a single second, what you are doing will not be represented in real world terms by actually changing grips for any length of time.

Instead, imagine it as a momentary interruption of a swing to parry with the forearm or simply stepping into a swing and knocking the enemy out of line with your body (both can canonically count as Judo Parry). I have no problem with visualising this as the part of a realistic use of a warhammer, where you deal with the fact that your weapon is slow to bring back into line by using mobility to defend yourself.

[Verjigorm]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Instead, imagine it as a momentary interruption of a swing to parry with the forearm or simply stepping into a swing and knocking the enemy out of line with your body (both can canonically count as Judo Parry). I have no problem with visualising this as the part of a realistic use of a warhammer, where you deal with the fact that your weapon is slow to bring back into line by using mobility to defend yourself.

Except that people don't do this. You have a 6 foot long shaft of wood to use to defend yourself, which is much better than your forearm for defending you. Realistic use of pole weapons is to make controlled, less than full power swings so you may still use the pole arm to defend yourself, to use armed grapples with the head or shaft to off balance your opponent, and to make a full power swing only when it won't leave you off balance.

This is a cheesy, gamist mechanic that is attempting to have it's cake and eat it too. I don't like it, i don't think it's realistic, and i wouldn't allow it in my game.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Verjigorm

Except that people don't do this. You have a 6 foot long shaft of wood to use to defend yourself, which is much better than your forearm for defending you. Realistic use of pole weapons is to make controlled, less than full power swings so you may still use the pole arm to defend yourself, to use armed grapples with the head or shaft to off balance your opponent, and to make a full power swing only when it won't leave you off balance.

This is a cheesy, gamist mechanic that is attempting to have it's cake and eat it too. I don't like it, i don't think it's realistic, and i wouldn't allow it in my game.

Note that Judo Parry-3 is much worse than Parry at full Polearm skill for a realistic dedicated polearm fighter. Particularly if you, realistically, allow duelling polearms using Staff skill to get +1 Parry.

Which means that you would only do this if someone was already inside the range at which you could parry unpenalised with your polearm.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Note that Judo Parry-3 is much worse than Parry at full Polearm skill for a realistic dedicated polearm fighter. Particularly if you, realistically, allow duelling polearms using Staff skill to get +1 Parry.

Which means that you would only do this if someone was already inside the range at which you could parry unpenalised with your polearm.

Speaking of which, is there are final word on how Staff interacts with various weapons? First time I read that it is the skill that provides superior parry, like Main-Gauche, but then opinions split.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Mercutio Montecchi

Yea now that I read the full pick rules, that kind of sucks.

My understanding is that picks tended to be used in initial attacks, and then abandoned in favor of other weapons. They are also the weapons of heavy troops that can afford to take hits.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Speaking of which, is there are final word on how Staff interacts with various weapons? First time I read that it is the skill that provides superior parry, like Main-Gauche, but then opinions split.

Canonically, the Staff skill listing in LT includes various polearms and all have Parry 0 there. Spear, however, has Parry +2 when used in a Staff grip.

The rules, as yet, make no distinction between a well-balanced 6' spear with a light head and a 11' heavy spear whose head is just slightly lighter than a glaive. All get a +2 and all duelling polearms, no matter how well balanced, get a whooping 0.

Giving duelling polearms and the naginata a +1 and reducing heavy spears to the same +1 is a houserule of mine. It still makes sense, though.

[Mailanka]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Canonically, the Staff skill listing in LT includes various polearms and all have Parry 0 there. Spear, however, has Parry +2 when used in a Staff grip.

The rules, as yet, make no distinction between a well-balanced 6' spear with a light head and a 11' heavy spear whose head is just slightly lighter than a glaive. All get a +2 and all duelling polearms, no matter how well balanced, get a whooping 0.

Giving duelling polearms and the naginata a +1 and reducing heavy spears to the same +1 is a houserule of mine. It still makes sense, though.

Consider it stolen

[Bruno]

I think I'll steal that myself. *scribbles it down*

In a semi-related note, I give Long Knives a -1 to Parry as a "transitional" weapon between knives and shortswords.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Bruno

In a semi-related note, I give Long Knives a -1 to Parry as a "transitional" weapon between knives and shortswords.

Assuming that a particular long knife has a hilt, probably not warranted. At least not without giving a -1 to Parry to most of the smaller weapons.

What I do instead is give a penalty to Parry based on the relative weight of the weapons used. Better leverage and more precision is needed to redirect an axe with a smallsword than you need to do it with a longsword.

Weapon parried is more than x1.5 weight but less than x3: -1 Parry.
Weapon parried is more than x3 weight but less than x6 weight: -2 Parry.
Weapon parried is more than x6 weight: -3 Parry (and almost as bad as being unarmed, but if you are parrying a slam or punch, you still might do damage to the enemy).