Tourneys and jousting

[DanHoward]

Originally Posted by Icelander

I'd like to get more opinions on whether the joust uses Lance skill or Lance Sport.

Depends on what you are trying to model. If it is late medieval tournaments (16th-17th century) then Sport would be appropriate. Any earlier types of tournaments would use combat skills.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by DanHoward

Depends on what you are trying to model. If it is late medieval tournaments (16th-17th century) then Sport would be appropriate. Any earlier types of tournaments would use combat skills.

Given that it's fantasy, it wouldn't correspond precisely to any particular era.

It's every bit as filled with pomp and pageantry as a late medieval joust, but it's also brutal and meant as training for war. Warriors in the setting have been established as using either the Late Medieval Knightly style or the High Medival one. The High Medieval one appears to be more popular.

[DanHoward]

Originally Posted by Icelander

But beyond that, if someone can afford only a single set of armour, meant to be usable in the field and at least passable in the joust, why should be be prevented from competing?.

Historically if someone could only afford a single suit of armour then he would not be close to the wealth and status required to compete in a tournament. The later in period you look, the worse it gets. By the end only rulers and their wealthiest vassals competed in jousts. Think of a single jousting competitor as a Formula One racing team and the amount of money required to put a car in a F1 event.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by DanHoward

Historically if someone could only afford a single suit of armour then he would not be close to the wealth and status required to compete in a tournament. The later in period you look, the worse it gets. By the end only rulers and their wealthiest vassals competed in jousts.

In order to qualify to compete in these tourneys, I had thought there would be several ways:

a) Be an anointed knight from a recognised authority in the area; those being several churches, noble families and civil authorities.
b) Claim to be an anointed knight from somewhere else and get someone local who is powerful enough to support your claim.
c) Be a noble, in which case status as a knight (in setting, it means that one has taken vows as well as having a certain status) does not matter.
d) Be a squire to a knight who qualifies and who vouches for your competence.

In all cases, the authority giving the tourney reserves the right to disqualify contenders who ostenably fulfill those criteria. That's rarely used, but may be a punishment of sorts for someone who is suspected of killing on purpose in the tourney.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by DanHoward

Think of a single jousting competitor as a Formula One racing team and the amount of money required to put a car in a F1 event.

Indeed.

But given that warfare is near constant in the area, someone at the lower end of the status range, who technically could afford jousting armour might well prioritise field armour and choose to compete in that.

[DanHoward]

Sounds like you are trying to model early jousting events. There would be no Sport skills. Weapon skills would be far more suitable.

[Exeter]

Originally Posted by DanHoward

Sounds like you are trying to model early jousting events. There would be no Sport skills. Weapon skills would be far more suitable.

I agree. At the beginning of the thread, I would have said Lance (sport) was probably more likely. However, upon further review, I've changed my mind.

If you go with combat Lance skill, then I'd expect injuries in these tournaments to be much more frequent than if using Lance (sport).

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by DanHoward

Sounds like you are trying to model early jousting events. There would be no Sport skills. Weapon skills would be far more suitable.

Thank you.

As noted, though, I'm not restricting myself to any one period. There will be pomp and circumstance, because that's fun, and there will be romantic knights in late medieval plate. I'll take elements from any historical periods I like and try to work them into the setting in a way that makes sense to me.

The setting is fantasy, there is magic and the economy is nothing like the Middle Ages. It's TL4, but without gunpowder and with the possibility of far better metallurgy than in our TL4 through magic as well as craftsmanship.

Trade and travel are both far easier than in our TL4, but that doesn't mean unarmed peasants can travel. Instead of merely bandits prowling roads, there are monsters, dragons and fearsome predators, as well as humanoid races in a permanent state of war against humans. A puissant knight and his doughty squire might ride without fear over hundres of miles to compete in a given tourney, but the same road might be certain death for a drover and his surly apprentice to travel.

Humans can learn supernatural tricks, not only by using spells, but through many other methods. A warrior with drive and talent might eventually become able to cleave men in twain, defeat even insubstantial spirits with only his bare hands and ignore pain and injury that would kill several men. That isn't to say that most warriors are superhuman, they are not, but every veteran warrior has at least seen and probably experienced some things that we would consider impossible.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Exeter

I agree. At the beginning of the thread, I would have said Lance (sport) was probably more likely. However, upon further review, I've changed my mind.

If you go with combat Lance skill, then I'd expect injuries in these tournaments to be much more frequent than if using Lance (sport).

Well, either way, the weapon does full damage. For two destriers riding at one another, I'd guess about 3d+3. Given tourney lances, that's 3d+3 cr, not imp, and I'll figure out a way to have them break, usually at 15+, but not completely reliably so.

Most competitors will be wearing jousting plate. That should be DR 10 or so for the torso and the limbs would be what, say 8 or so? Dan, what would you say were typical DRs for each hit location for a basic set of jousting armour?

[DanHoward]

The helmet, chest, and left arm/shoulder would be DR 10 or more. The rest of the upper body would be DR 6-7. Legs could be anything from DR 1 up to DR 6.