berserk combat

[Henchman99942]

I have a combat question.

Two fighters are separated by 50 yards. One goes berserk, the other does not. The berserk guy employs a halberd. The other fighter employs a one handed weapon (Sword, mace, whatever). Once berserk, the halberd guy runs at max speed toward the other guy (who is either also running toward his opponent or standing still)

Does who strikes first depend upon when the berserker guy comes into combat range? He must either move and attack or move and slam. If the hexes separating the two is X when he ends his turn, he must do Y. Shouldn't the prime factor be weapon length? Or if the sword guy moves toward the halberd guy with move and attack after Hal has taken his turn, does sword guy strike first? Or do both get their turn whatever the outcome?

[Mathulhu]

They both get their turns as normal.

The berserk halberd guy will act predictably so the sword guy can use a Wait maneuver to get the first attack in, otherwise the berserk guy will probably get the first attack in as a Move and Attack or All Out Attack action.

[Varyon]

The way I'd run it, the berserker moves until he is just within range to do an All-Out Attack (which lets you move at half Move), at which point he stops. The next turn, he will move the rest of the distance and strike with an All-Out Attack. If the swordsman opts to step back some on his next turn, I'll probably assume he'll do the same the turn thereafter and move the berserker so that he can All-Out Attack even if the opponent repeats the option.

While this does make it appear the berserker is thinking a lot more clearly than he probably should be, the "real" situation would be the berserker moving forward until he's close enough to attack and then attacking All-Out. Due to the way the GURPS turn sequence works, there's a decent chance he'll get to a range where he can't All-Out Attack next turn but can Move and Attack, which seems ridiculous. Why? Assuming Move 5 on the berserker, this means that if the target is within 3 yards (of Reach), the berserker can AOA, if at 4 or 5 he has to Move and Attack, but if at 6-8 he can AOA, while 9-10 means Move and Attack, and so on. It makes no good sense for there to be bands where the berserker has to Move and Attack, so you have to make him behave a little differently (or allow a character who took a previous Move action to follow up with All Out Attack at full Move instead of half).

[Bruno]

This has little to do with Berserk, other than Berserk makes sure one of the attackers is choosing to advance aggressively. Other disadvantages can push a character into the same sort of aggressive advance (depending on the situation: On the Edge, Overconfidence, Intolerance, Sense of Duty to the guy telling you to charge...) and of course you don't need a disad to choose to advance.

Both characters are taking actions normally - Berserk restricts the specific actions the berserker can choose, but doesn't give his foe "free" interruptions or "attacks of opportunity" or any of that stuff that you may be familiar with from taking risky actions other game systems. The berserker is also not required to charge right into his foes face - he can circle around to attack from the flank or even behind if he has enough Move, or he can choose an All Out Attack Long (option from Martial Arts), among other things. The restrictions are: Only Move and All Out Attack options (no Move and attack except to Slam, no Change posture, no Ready, nada) and No Defenses, along with "If someone(s) is in reach of an All Out Attack (move and Reach), you must attack one of them" (not only the nearest, any one of them is legal) and "If no-one is in reach, Move towards the nearest until someone(s) is in reach."

Most of the non-crazy guys best options involve the Wait maneuver and various combat options that might have given the berserker a bonus on his defenses... except that the berserker can't defend :D If he doesn't Wait, turns are handled by Basic Speed as normal and the initiative mostly goes to whomever gets into attacking range first (with an actual attack available). That's what happens when you meet a charge with a charge (or with standing around picking your nose).

If you're the non-crazy guy, don't bother with fancy tricks to give the Berserker defence penalties - he's not defending at all after all. This makes things like Counterattack and Deceptive Attack pointless. On the other hand, other options that can be done on your defence against the berserkers charge can be useful: Trip is particularly good if he chooses to Slam on his charge, since a berserker can't Change Posture... so he can't get up once you've knocked him on his face. He can flail around at low Move and gnaw on your ankles so he's not exactly helpless.

[kirbwarrior]

Originally Posted by Bruno

Both characters are taking actions normally - Berserk restricts the specific actions the berserker can choose, but doesn't give his foe "free" interruptions or "attacks of opportunity" or any of that stuff that you may be familiar with from taking risky actions other game systems. The berserker is also not required to charge right into his foes face - he can circle around to attack from the flank or even behind if he has enough Move, or he can choose an All Out Attack Long (option from Martial Arts), among other things. The restrictions are: Only Move and All Out Attack options (no Move and attack except to Slam, no Change posture, no Ready, nada) and No Defenses, along with "If someone(s) is in reach of an All Out Attack (move and Reach), you must attack one of them" (not only the nearest, any one of them is legal) and "If no-one is in reach, Move towards the nearest until someone(s) is in reach."

Note, the berserker doesn't lose his defenses, he's merely making All-Out attacks. If he is only moving, he can defend himself. And now rereading it, you can Move and Attack without a Slam.

The best thing you can do as a swordsman is to do any of the above options, and skill allowing, do a Slip to get inside the berserker's range. If you can get close enough, he'll drop his weapon to attack you, because the halberd is too long (or swing at a paltry -8). He won't go anywhere, so go ahead and make Telegraphic attacks while forcing him to either swing pitifully or drop his main advantage over you.

[Gold & Appel Inc]

Don't forget, if Berserk Halberd Guy does an AoA Determined, Feint, or Strong Slam he still gets his full Move (4e MA p 98), and can use his Halberd to Weapon Slam (4e MA p 112) for more damage, probably taking Sane Guy down unless interrupted. The best counter-move to this for Sane Guy is to Trip him, as Bruno mentioned.

[Nereidalbel]

Originally Posted by Bruno

Trip is particularly good if he chooses to Slam on his charge, since a berserker can't Change Posture

Where does the RAW say that a berserker who falls down can't stand back up and (attempt to) brutally murder whoever tripped him?

[vierasmarius]

Originally Posted by Nereidalbel

Where does the RAW say that a berserker who falls down can't stand back up and (attempt to) brutally murder whoever tripped him?

It says he can only All-Out Attack a target within reach, or Move towards a target out of reach. Change Posture is a separate maneuver, so technically speaking Bruno is correct. However, I feel that's an overly rigid interpretation, and would allow a berserker to stand and fight. I'd also allow him to at least back up if an opponent is closer than his Reach, or take a Ready to adjust his weapon's reach.

[Mr_Sandman]

Originally Posted by Nereidalbel

Where does the RAW say that a berserker who falls down can't stand back up and (attempt to) brutally murder whoever tripped him?

I believe it says a berserker must All Out Attack whenever an opponent is in range, and use a Move maneuver to get as close as possible to a foe if none is in range, so going by RAW, it precludes a Change Posture maneuver.

I'd be inclined to not enforce that literally, otherwise you could have someone in a berserk rage trying to do a 19 yard belly crawl, instead of standing and running.

[gilbertocarlos]

Originally Posted by Mr_Sandman

I believe it says a berserker must All Out Attack whenever an opponent is in range, and use a Move maneuver to get as close as possible to a foe if none is in range, so going by RAW, it precludes a Change Posture maneuver.

I'd be inclined to not enforce that literally, otherwise you could have someone in a berserk rage trying to do a 19 yard belly crawl, instead of standing and running.

He wants to get as close as possible as soon as possible, he'll only crawl instead of getting up with a move of 100+.