Less Sleep Level Cap

[Humabout]

Is there any particular reason Less Sleep caps at 4 levels? What if I want to only require 3 hours of sleep per night, but don't want to go for the full Doesn't Sleep? Does anyone think it'd be particularly unbalanced to just continue at 2/level up to only 1 hour of sleep per night? What about recosting it so each level costs 2.5 points/level (rounded depending on the level, of course)?

[kdtipa]

Doesn't Sleep costs 20 points. If you used Less Sleep without a limit, you could achieve a lack of need for sleep with 16 points. I guess there's more worth to not needing to sleep at all, than needing to sleep at least a little. So I'm guessing the limit is in place partly because of the other advantage.

I'd also guess it's an attempt at some realism. People who need less sleep in real life are not people who only need one or two hours per night. There are ill effects for everyone when they try to keep a schedule like that.

But if you as the GM want to allow more levels, that's up to you.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Humabout

Is there any particular reason Less Sleep caps at 4 levels? What if I want to only require 3 hours of sleep per night, but don't want to go for the full Doesn't Sleep? Does anyone think it'd be particularly unbalanced to just continue at 2/level up to only 1 hour of sleep per night? What about recosting it so each level costs 2.5 points/level (rounded depending on the level, of course)?

<shrug> The limit changed from 5 to 4 between Bio-tech for 3e and Biu-tech for 4e. I can not tell you why.

Animal models are all over the place, probably for a variety of reasons. Domestic cats sleep 85% of the time and even feral cats sleep 75%. Possibly related to energy conservation.

Grass-eating quadrupeds sleep very little. Quite possibly more like 3 hours than 4. Dolphins (and probably other cetaceans) only "sleep" with one hemisphere of their brain at a time. The other makes sure they keep coming up for air at regular intervals and probably watches for sharks too.

In the comics, Batman gets by with only 2 hours of deep meditation rather than sleeping period. Some sort of esoteric technique he learned in one of those hard to find Himalyan mountains monasteries.

So any level between 4 and no sleep at all is justifiable for someone/something. We might be taking a species mod/non-human/esoteric trait rather than a normal human ability but it will be possible and it doesn't look like a game mechanical breakpoint to me..

[Maz]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

Domestic cats sleep 85% of the time and even feral cats sleep 75%. Possibly related to energy conservation.

It's not really sleep as we know it as humans though. Cats retain up to 70% awareness when they doze (which is about 4/5 of the "sleep time").

I think we could use a modifier for Less sleep or Doesn't sleep so instead of "human -turned off- sleep" it's just "really deep rest -sleep". To represent things like typical cats, the batman you mention, and classical D&D elves.

[namada]

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[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by Maz

It's not really sleep as we know it as humans though. Cats retain up to 70% awareness when they doze (which is about 4/5 of the "sleep time").

I think we could use a modifier for Less sleep or Doesn't sleep so instead of "human -turned off- sleep" it's just "really deep rest -sleep". To represent things like typical cats, the batman you mention, and classical D&D elves.

Sorry, but I call shenanigans on the cat "fact". Just because most of their sleep isn't spent in near unrousable REM does not make them light sleepers. I've had few cats that were regularly lighter sleepers than me.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

<shrug> The limit changed from 5 to 4 between Bio-tech for 3e and Biu-tech for 4e. I can not tell you why.

Animal models are all over the place, probably for a variety of reasons. Domestic cats sleep 85% of the time and even feral cats sleep 75%. Possibly related to energy conservation.
....

Can't be as sleeping only reduces energy use by 10% from sitting still while alert. That alone is not worth the loss of awareness to surroundings.

Since nearly every animal more complex than a nematode sleeps, it must be something either fundamentally necessary or a conserved kludge from truly ancient times that is now too intrinsic to neurology to evolve out of.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by fartrader

...
Most folks get around 8 hours a night, but that 8 varies from 4-12, and loose functional ability without their required minimum. There is no human being that can live for long with less than that, as the human brain will eventually die if it can't sleep. Look up fatal insomnia for the effects of totally not sleeping at all. The same things happen to those who habitually don't get enough sleep, only over a longer timespan than a few months. Even though we don't entirely understand why, sleep is vital to human health.
...

Yet some studies show that those that need less sleep live longer on average than regular or long sleepers.
On average I need over 9 hours of sleep assuming I fall asleep in under a half hour. (fast for me) But low light levels force me to go into near hibernation as S.A.D. but without any depression thankfully.
My mother needs less than 5 hours, as her body simply will not sleep longer than that during an entire day.
Sleep is still a huge mystery for being such a major part of life.

[namada]

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[Flyndaran]

I actually slept much less as an infant. I reached my present age 38 requirement around my teens.

I have heard that certain animals like horses have two distinct types of sleep. The light resting one they do nightly while standing and even eating. And their deep, lie down, die if they never get it, sleep of a couple of hours weekly.