Shooting Dice Blog with GURPS content

[Polydamas]

Originally Posted by HANS

After a longish hiatus, I've posted a new entry on my blog about home-made Glock machine pistols.

Cheers

HANS

You've talked about how there was a significant legal and illegal demand for stocked pistols and pistols with automatic capacity in the 1920s and 1930s, was that just because of the lack of self-loading rifles and carbines? Or something people kept trying because it seemed cool and discovering it was not worth the hassle?

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by HANS

After a longish hiatus, I've posted a new entry on my blog about home-made Glock machine pistols.

Splendid - in a rather terrifying way.

[HANS]

Originally Posted by Polydamas

You've talked about how there was a significant legal and illegal demand for stocked pistols and pistols with automatic capacity in the 1920s and 1930s, was that just because of the lack of self-loading rifles and carbines? Or something people kept trying because it seemed cool and discovering it was not worth the hassle?

There were two main reasons for the surge of machine pistols in that era:

The most important was the war in China -- both internal and with the Japanese -- which had led to an international arms embargo. This covered rifles and machine guns -- but not pistols. Thus, stocked pistols and stocked machine pistols were a hot commodity to export to China. Both Germany and Spain produced huge numbers for that market, and the resultant weapons were then also used elsewhere.

The other market for stocked pistols and machine pistols in general was the American underworld of the 1930s. In 1930, Auto-Ordnance, the only relevant manufacturer of submachine guns in the USA, stopped selling them to civilians. Consequently there was a market for both compact weapons with high firepower (stocked Mauser and Luger pistols) and full-automatic weapons of any kind (converted Colt and Mauser machine pistols, Winchester rifles etc).

The former were the more successful types (by several orders of magnitude), the latter were the technically more interesting patterns.

Of course, most of these things can be found in High-Tech: Pulp Guns 1.

Cheers

HANS

[Polydamas]

Originally Posted by HANS

The other market for stocked pistols and machine pistols in general was the American underworld of the 1930s. In 1930, Auto-Ordnance, the only relevant manufacturer of submachine guns in the USA, stopped selling them to civilians. Consequently there was a market for both compact weapons with high firepower (stocked Mauser and Luger pistols) and full-automatic weapons of any kind (converted Colt and Mauser machine pistols, Winchester rifles etc).

The former were the more successful types (by several orders of magnitude), the latter were the technically more interesting patterns.

Have you found any famous crimes where the criminals used pistols with stocks? I think there was just one or two in the gangster arsenals you have posted under Gangster Gats.

I guess its tricky because in the 1920s and 1930s the Mauser C96 and Luger P08/LP08 were almost the only handguns from reputable manufacturers with ten or more rounds in a military calibre. I suppose the Browning Hi-Power came out in 1935 but I get the impression that in the beginning its customers were mostly military.

[HANS]

Originally Posted by Polydamas

Have you found any famous crimes where the criminals used pistols with stocks? I think there was just one or two in the gangster arsenals you have posted under Gangster Gats.

I guess its tricky because in the 1920s and 1930s the Mauser C96 and Luger P08/LP08 were almost the only handguns from reputable manufacturers with ten or more rounds in a military calibre. I suppose the Browning Hi-Power came out in 1935 but I get the impression that in the beginning its customers were mostly military.

The Browning GP was not available commercially in the USA -- Raiders of the Lost Ark notwithstanding.

Mausers were used occasionally. Lugers with 32-round drums were extremely widespread. Very, very many instances of "machine guns" being used by bank robbers, killers, or other lawless folks were actually Lugers (commercial American Eagles, wartime P.08, P.04 or l.P.08 samples, or any others) with drums. The stocks were not always present, but the drums were. For you see, Lugers were much more numerous than Thompsons even in the USA, and they were lighter and easier to conceal, and they were way cheaper. While a second-hand Thompson on the grey market (1930-1934) or the black market (1934-) cost upwards of $300 ($225 new to those eligible), a used Luger could be had for $15 and a drum for $10 ... One famous user was Wilbur "Tri-State Terror" Underhill, who supposedly went down with two Lugers in his hands (unlikely -- the FBI was prone to exaggeration at the time). Others were the Flathead Mob, Gray Glove Gang, Korney Gang, Long Beach Gang, Purple Gang, Parente Syndicate, Rothstein Gang, Sutton Gang, etc, etc.

Cheers

HANS