Cost of Less Sleep vs Doesn't Sleep

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Icelander

My point was that the benefit of not sleeping at all (rather than halving the time you spend on it, as with the maximum level of Less Sleep) was more influential in the generic pricing for Doesn't Sleep than an immunity to sleep affliction, especially considering that these only really mattered in a few specific settings.

I actually suspect it might be a remnant of 3e pricing (IIRC there was Less Sleep/level, Reduced Sleep, and Doesn't Sleep, too) and/or 3e's built-in Unusual Background pricing.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

I actually suspect it might be a remnant of 3e pricing (IIRC there was Less Sleep/level, Reduced Sleep, and Doesn't Sleep, too) and/or 3e's built-in Unusual Background pricing.

Do you not believe that it is worth more than to completely free of sleep than it is to have to sleep half as much?

The loss of time caused by the need to sleep is not the only disadvantage it has. The fact that a predatory enemy can wait for the character to fall asleep before choosing to attack is also important. If that happens after a slightly longer wait, that's one thing, but if it never happens, the character has a significant advantage. Doesn't Sleep has a qualiative advantage over Less Sleep, not merely a quantiative one.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Do you not believe that it is worth more than to completely free of sleep than it is to have to sleep half as much?

The loss of time caused by the need to sleep is not the only disadvantage it has. The fact that a predatory enemy can wait for the character to fall asleep before choosing to attack is also important. If that happens after a slightly longer wait, that's one thing, but if it never happens, the character has a significant advantage. Doesn't Sleep has a qualiative advantage over Less Sleep, not merely a quantiative one.

I can agree that the fair cost of reduced sleeping hours is non-linear. I don't think that, say, needing to sleep one minute and not needing to sleep at all are more than one point apart, unless we include immunity to externally-afflicted sleep.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Yes, but they aren't really viable as something to drug a hostile character with. They may help you sleep, but if you tried to use enough to make an alert sentry fall asleep fast enough so that he couldn't call in that someone had drugged him, for example, they would either not work or the massive dose would have some side-effects that were far more dangerous than 'sleep'.
...

Just because you are obsessed with instant combat time effective results, does not mean that anything else is useless.

In reality, drugs are dangerous even when used in a medical setting by professionals.
In your apparently preferred setting, the likely result would be unpredictable and possible death.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

Just because you are obsessed with instant combat time effective results, does not mean that anything else is useless.

In reality, drugs are dangerous even when used in a medical setting by professionals.
In your apparently preferred setting, the likely result would be unpredictable and possible death.

The point is that 'Immunity to Sleep' won't protect you from much at all in a realistic setting. Even the drugs that cause sleep as the desired effect also have other effects.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Icelander

The point is that 'Immunity to Sleep' won't protect you from much at all in a realistic setting. Even the drugs that cause sleep as the desired effect also have other effects.

Well, being, say, IQ-2, DX-2 still beats being IQ-2, DX-2 and asleep. Also being immune to FP loss with the Sleep Hazard modifier is also pretty cool.