Horses and other animals

[Chris Goodwin]

Does anyone know if rules for horses and other draft animals ever appeared in Car Wars?

I remember the rules for the deer (and robotic decoy) in one of the supplements, but I'm specifically looking for horses, oxen, etc.

[kjamma4]

Originally Posted by Chris Goodwin

Does anyone know if rules for horses and other draft animals ever appeared in Car Wars?

Unless the rules are for cargo or food, please no.

[Chris Goodwin]

Really? We have rules with which we can build vehicles, move them around, and get them into fights with one another. Did no one besides me ever want to play chariot fights in a gladiatorial arena, Old West stagecoaches with hand-cranked Gatling guns, and so on, without having to learn a new set of rules? (We have variant rules for superheroes. We have variant rules for dragons and spells fer crying out loud. Vampires and mummies and werewolves, even!)

(I tried to write Cart Wars, many years ago, during which I learned that if you play Car Wars with one second phases, and invert the combat and skill system to roll low, and tweak the math so that you roll three dice instead of two, you get something that starts looking a whole lot like GURPS. This is not surprising at all given who designed both games.)

[Magesmiley]

Originally Posted by Chris Goodwin

Does anyone know if rules for horses and other draft animals ever appeared in Car Wars?

I remember the rules for the deer (and robotic decoy) in one of the supplements, but I'm specifically looking for horses, oxen, etc.

About the only thing that I can recall was a mention in one of the timelines that most horses were slaughtered during the blight years due to a combination of their protein value and high consumption of valuable grains. I suspect as a result, the population of the hay-burners is significantly decreased from present day. On the flip side, I also seem to vaguely remember there being mention of some police still using horses in ones of the Road Atlases too (couldn't tell you if there were rules for them there or which one).

The deer was in the Chopper Challenge expansion, if I recall.

[Angrytubist]

Dare I say it? Battle Cattle anyone?

[shadowjack]

I know of no official rules, but the Painted Target website (which seems to be gone again) had some rules. Let me trawl through my files, here, and see what I've got saved…

Okay, here's what I could find, excerpted from his rules for dinosaurs:



A horse: 9 DP, attacks with to hit 8 for 1d-3 damage, acceleration 10, top speed 30, targeted at -1 from the front or back and +0 from the side, weighs 800 lbs., uses a 1/2"x1/2" counter.

A horse is wounded at half DP (-1 to hit with its attacks, -25% top speed), unconscious at 1 DP left, and dead of course at 0 DP.

Supposedly, it can only attack into its forward arc, but I think a horse should be able to kick rear, too. Damage is full to soft targets and half to hard targets, just like SMGs.

No HC; instead, if it moves any amount in a phase, it may make one maneuver. Horses can only bend and drift. Maximum 90° bend at up to 10 mph, 60° at up to 25 mph, 45° at 30 mph.

I can't find stats for saddles and tack, and while Horse Riding skill is mentioned, it doesn't seem to have any concrete game effect…



I'd welcome seeing a moderate set of horse house rules; they'd be no good in an open battle, but since they're a reasonable post-apocalypse solution to fuel shortages, I could see them in role-play scenarios for infantry scouts, riot police (no doubt with horse body armor!), or backwoods transportation. Or one of those crazed comedic scenarios where cycle gangs attack the Kentucky Derby or something.

[Angrytubist]

Or if Car Wars jockeys traditionally carry crop, bowie knife, and a pistol in the race.

It's definitely no more ridiculous than the bicycle rules presented in ADQ.

Edit: I would give individual animals some variety by adding 1d6mph to their top speed. I wold probably add Barding, and Improved Barding analogous to BA and IBA maybe riot shields as well. In events with heavier armor allow bigger hand-weapons.

[Chris Goodwin]

Since I seem to be obsessing over using the Car Wars rules in alternate settings, the first thing that appeals to me is using them to run chariot racing in-period. The Wikipedia article on it makes it sound quite fun and game-able, almost like autoduelling.

(A few interesting things about it: there were originally two factions, Red and White; two more were added, Blue and Green; a later emperor tried to add Purple and Gold, and those went away when he died; inter-faction fan violence was almost like football hooliganism; Emperor Justinian I's legal code prohibited drivers from placing curses on one another, though curses in this context might refer to "curse" amulets, basically small, spiked balls, which spectators might throw onto the track to curse their faction's opponents.)

[Fred Skin]

All farm animals, dogs, cats, squirrels, rats, and neighbors would have been eaten during the grain blight and food riots, I'd imagine. If I had to eat algae, anything resembling meat would look tasty.

[Angrytubist]

Now, If I was just wanting to run a chariot racing game set in ancient rome. I'd use Circus Maximus, it's always served me well in that capacity.

However if I was wanting to add "horsepower" to Car Wars here's what I'd do.

The rules quoted above are ok, but too sparse to be playable, plus there's no design step. Lets add four types of horse, the light, medium,heavy, and draft (work breeds) .

light horse: 9 DP, attacks with to hit 8 for 1d-3 damage, top speed 30, targeted at -1 from the front or back and +0 from the side, weighs 800 lbs, Carrying Capacity 400 lbs, Pulling Capacity 800 lbs. , uses a 1/2"x1/2" counter.

medium horse: 10 DP, attacks with to hit 8 for 1d-2 damage, top speed 25, targeted at -1 from the front or back and +0 from the side, weighs 1,000 lbs, Carrying Capacity 500 lbs, Pulling Capacity 1,000 lbs. , uses a 1/2"x1/2" counter.

heavy horse: 11 DP, attacks with to hit 8 for 1d-1 damage, top speed 20, targeted at -1 from the front or back and +0 from the side, weighs 1,500 lbs, Carrying Capacity 750 lbs, Pulling Capacity 1,500 lbs. , uses a 1/2"x1/2" counter.

draft horse: 12 DP, attacks with to hit 8 for 1d damage, top speed 15, targeted at -1 from the front or back and +0 from the side, weighs 2,000 lbs, Carrying Capacity 1,000 lbs, Pulling Capacity 2,000 lbs. , uses a 1/2"x1/2" counter.

If you want your mounts to be less durable feel free to subtract 3 or even 6 DP from their stats. I like the high durability because it encourages shooting at the rider instead of the animal.(as was generally the case historically.)

Roll 2d6 at creation the horse is:

2:cold blooded,no additional speed, acceleration . 5 mph
3-4: cold blooded, +2.5 mph to top speed acceleration 5mph
5-7: warm-blooded +5 mph to top speed, acceleration 10mph
8-9: warm-blooded +7.5 mph to top speed, acceleration 10mph
10-12: hot-blooded +10mph to top speed, acceleration 15mph

A horse is wounded at half DP (-1 to hit with its attacks, -25% top speed), unconscious at 1 DP left, and dead of course at 0 DP.

Supposedly, it can only attack into its forward arc, but I think a horse should be able to kick rear, too. Damage is full to soft targets and half to hard targets, just like SMGs.

Maneuvering: A horse doesn't normally make control rolls instead, if it moves any amount in a phase, it may make one maneuver. Horses can only bend and drift. Maximum 90° bend at up to 10 mph, 60° at up to 25 mph, 45° at 30 mph.

Load Pulling :A Horse (equipped with a harness) may pull a maximum of 3x his own weight. Apply acceleration and top speed penalties as follows.All penalties are cumulative.

When a horse is pulling a load: -5mph top speed (minimum 2.5mph)

Off-Road: If the horse is pulling a load off-road, -5mph acceleration(minimum 2.5mph), -5mph top speed(minimum 2.5mph). A horse may not pull more than 2x his body weight off-road.

Dragging: If the load does not have wheels, -5mph acceleration(minimum 2.5mph), -5mph top speed(minimum 2.5mph). A horse may not drag more than 2x his body weight.

Loads greater than the horses body weight:

Greater than 1x body weight,-5mph acceleration(minimum 2.5mph), -5mph top speed(minimum 2.5mph)

Greater than 2x body weight, -10mph acceleration(minimum 2.5mph), -10mph top speed(minimum 2.5mph)

Equal to 3x body weight, -15mph acceleration (minimum 2.5mph), -15mph top speed (minimum 2.5mph)

The load being pulled is treated as a trailer for maneuvering, except chariots and two-wheeled carts.

Horses all are HC 1 off-road, with a -1 when the animal is on pavement.

Ridden horses should only make control rolls when at their top speed, take damage , or are startled (Refs discretion I guess).

A riderless horse doesn't make control rolls.

Horses pulling carts or wagons, should make control rolls as any other vehicle, as well as whenever they take damage or are startled.

I'd use engine-less trike or possibly cycle chassis to build chariots and two wheeled carts, and car chassis for wagons and buggies, the chassis should be designed for this purpose.

For maneuvering purposes I'd treat 2-wheeled carts as a car with the team, and the 4-wheeled ones as trailers behind the team of horses.

Here are some items you may find useful.

saddle $100, 50 lbs, necessary to fire a hand weapon from horseback (If riding bareback take -3)

Harness $100, 25 lbs, necessary to pull a load with the animal.

bridle $50, 5 lbs, Improves a horses HC by 1, a bridle requires a free hand to gain its benefits.

crop (or quirt if you ride western) $50, 1lb increases a ridden mounts acceleration by +2.5mph, requires a free hand to gain its benefits.

spurs $150, 1lb increases a ridden mounts acceleration by +2.5mph, and HC by +1.

shoes $100 per foot, 5 lbs per foot, either just the front feet or all four may be shod. If just the front are shod, improve the horses HC by 1. If all four are shod, that horse no longer takes an HC penalty on-road.

spiked shoes $150 per foot, 8 lbs per foot, same as regular shoes but adds +1 to damage on the side they're applied to.

Barding (horse body armor) 3x listed cost and weight for humans. Including Armored Saddlebags for the Armored Battle Vest.

Riot shields on horseback: as on foot but the shield may block to the front or to the side it is held on, declared by the wielder at the beginning of each phase.

The Anti-Vehicular Lance, $150, 25 lbs, 3 GE the wielder must ram his enemy on horseback. the lance extends 1" in front of his mount. to hit 7, damage 3 plus the ram damage. The horse + rider take no ram damage on a hit. this item is single-use.

Explosive Anti-Vehicular Lance, $175+the cost of the grenade, 20lbs+weight of the grenade,4 GE, the same as the lance above, but on the phase after a successful hit a grenade built into the head goes off. If the lance breached the vehicles armor the grenade is considered to be inside the crew compartment.

All other accessories: most other pedestrian accessories, can be produced as a piece of horse tack (such as Gas Masks, NV goggles, Auto darkening shades, backpacks) and are available at 3x the cost and weight of the item made for humans. In the case of the "horsepack" it would also have 3x the carrying capacity.

sorry, I wrote you guys a book here.