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Old 01-05-2014, 03:26 PM   #11
JCurwen3
 
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Default Re: Wait Maneuver and Multiple Scenarios

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Originally Posted by Kuroshima View Post
I would only allow multiple scenarios for a waiting character if it had Compartmentalized Mind, and I would still restrict it to 1 additional scenario per level of CM. Doing so would preclude using the extra mental maneuvers that CM gives though. Enhanced Time Sense might also give you an extra scenario or two.
I agree on the 1 additional scenario per CM level, with the stipulation you specified. Also ATR.

With ETS, I might allow a larger number of declared additional Wait scenarios, just not sure how many.
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Old 01-05-2014, 03:56 PM   #12
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Default Re: Wait Maneuver and Multiple Scenarios

Much of your original conjecture is based on being able to differentiate the situation as it happens. If the waiter can see around the corner or otherwise make such a call in advance, then there's less of an issue. Otherwise, I think I'd be calling upon a Perception test, at a significant penalty, to make the decision for him.
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Old 01-05-2014, 04:06 PM   #13
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Default Re: Wait Maneuver and Multiple Scenarios

Wait is a second by second maneuver. If you have the necessary information in the preceding second to accurately describe your action then you don't need the compound wait. In essence you aren't really using the Wait action you are determining if they are an enemy and if they are surprising him or disengaging from him.

If you don't have the information then you need to commit to an action based on the information you have and then take a penalty on your action to stop it if it is inappropriate.

Or you can wait and see what happens. I think partial surprise describes this perfectly, both make an IQ check with a bonus for combat reflexes if they both pass the person with the highest basic speed acts first.
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Old 01-05-2014, 04:58 PM   #14
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Default Re: Wait Maneuver and Multiple Scenarios

I have to say I hadn't considered ETS... I'd be tempted to let someone with ETS declare a Wait without a specified trigger and choose the moment of interruption and triggered action on the fly, as long as that action is something that could plausibly be done "instantly". Anything to give the player a little more value for the extra 30 points they spent.
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Old 01-05-2014, 06:09 PM   #15
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Default Re: Wait Maneuver and Multiple Scenarios

I think if the player can't see who it is until the last second (ie they are coming around a corner) then I would apply the same penalties that go with opportunity fire as other people have suggested, otherwise I think I would allow it at no penalty. The request seems pretty reasonable to me.

As I recall the penalties are based on number of hexes watched or a flat penalty if watching down a straight line.

Last edited by pfharlock; 01-05-2014 at 06:18 PM.
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Old 01-05-2014, 08:07 PM   #16
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Default Re: Wait Maneuver and Multiple Scenarios

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Originally Posted by Mr_Sandman View Post
According to Kromm here, the trigger for a wait and the reaction can be broad and complex, but not vague. One particular maneuver (Attack, AoA, Feint or Ready) must be declared that the Wait will convert to. Although the target can be conditional.

That, and the rules in Basic p. 366, indicate to me that you could not include the "run if someone heavily armored corners" option.
Thank you for the Kromm link. I was looking for that earlier, but couldn't find it. It is the best post on the Wait maneuver I have ever read.

IMHO, I think this would be a legal Wait maneuver:

Wait until someone comes around the corner, then Move and Attack. Once the wait is triggered, I can decide whether to move towards or away from the guy depending on the armor I see him wearing. Alternately, you could select a simple Attack as your triggered maneuver, but then you would only be able to take one step towards or away. In any case, I think it's legal to forfeit the move, step, and/or attack of any maneuver at any time; so if someone nonthreatening came around the corner, you could just stand there.

Last edited by Captain Joy; 01-05-2014 at 08:17 PM. Reason: Added last sentence
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Old 01-05-2014, 08:20 PM   #17
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Default Re: Wait Maneuver and Multiple Scenarios

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Originally Posted by Xplo View Post
I have to say I hadn't considered ETS... I'd be tempted to let someone with ETS declare a Wait without a specified trigger and choose the moment of interruption and triggered action on the fly, as long as that action is something that could plausibly be done "instantly". Anything to give the player a little more value for the extra 30 points they spent.
If you are waiting (not using a Wait maneuver) around a corner, not engaged with an enemy, it could be argued that you should not be in combat time. When a potential enemy turns the corner, then combat begins. At that point ETS lets you take any maneuver before your opponent, unless the opponent has ETS as well.

In the quote from Kromm I posted above, he also pointed out that you can act at a lower Basic Speed without using a Wait maneuver. So you can just say that you will act after whoever comes around the corner. In that case you can't interrupt their maneuver, but if they don't suspect you are there, it is unlikely that they are taking any maneuver other than Move if they are walking around the corner.
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Old 01-06-2014, 08:46 PM   #18
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Default Re: Wait Maneuver and Multiple Scenarios

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Originally Posted by Mr_Sandman View Post
In the quote from Kromm I posted above, he also pointed out that you can act at a lower Basic Speed without using a Wait maneuver. So you can just say that you will act after whoever comes around the corner.
I'm not at all familiar with allowing this, but that seems abusable not to mention annoying? 'I'll go at Speed 5 now instead of 6'.

'Hmm. I'll go at Speed 4 instead of 5 now.'

'Nah, I'll go to Speed 3, see what happens.'

And is it verified it 'resets' after the Sequence would restart? So someone 'delays' to Speed 0, then go again at Speed 6 for their next action/turn?
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Old 01-06-2014, 09:57 PM   #19
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Default Re: Wait Maneuver and Multiple Scenarios

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Originally Posted by Captain Joy View Post
Thank you for the Kromm link. I was looking for that earlier, but couldn't find it. It is the best post on the Wait maneuver I have ever read.

IMHO, I think this would be a legal Wait maneuver:

Wait until someone comes around the corner, then Move and Attack. Once the wait is triggered, I can decide whether to move towards or away from the guy depending on the armor I see him wearing. Alternately, you could select a simple Attack as your triggered maneuver, but then you would only be able to take one step towards or away. In any case, I think it's legal to forfeit the move, step, and/or attack of any maneuver at any time; so if someone nonthreatening came around the corner, you could just stand there.
This is vague. Remember the wait must specify what you will do if something happens. You're putting off what you'll be doing until after the wait triggers; "depending on the armor they are wearing" is vague.


In addition, I believe that a move and attack only allows forward movement.mat best you could just stand there. However, Kromm has stated that you maneuver is visible to everyone. I'm not sure what a move and attack would look like if you moved zero yards though, but I think you'd look hostile. Also, your attack would be limited to 9 even if you didn't move during your move and attack maneuver.
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Old 01-06-2014, 10:52 PM   #20
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Default Re: Wait Maneuver and Multiple Scenarios

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I'm not at all familiar with allowing this, but that seems abusable not to mention annoying? 'I'll go at Speed 5 now instead of 6'.

'Hmm. I'll go at Speed 4 instead of 5 now.'

'Nah, I'll go to Speed 3, see what happens.'

And is it verified it 'resets' after the Sequence would restart? So someone 'delays' to Speed 0, then go again at Speed 6 for their next action/turn?
It's not explicitly stated anywhere in the rules, but having faster reactions is a good argument for having the option to delay until your opponent acts then respond.

I could see where it might be annoying if a significant percentage of the players at the table started doing it, or if two characters got into an "After you, my dear Alphonse" situation. I don't think that would be a common problem though, since most players usually want to act before their opponents, to have a chance to hit before they get hit.

As for 'resetting' back to the faster full Basic Speed on a following turn, I'd allow it. I don't think it's any more abusable than a Wait, which could also potentially result in a character acting twice in a row. The trade off is that you are allowing your enemy to act first, without the possibility of interrupting the enemy's action.

If a player wanted to do that in my game, I'd limit their move accordingly for that turn. If they purposely hesitate, they can't move as far.
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