4e Cure Disease badly worded/overpowered

[maximara]

I was looking through 4e Cure Disease and realized just how badly worded/overpowered it is.

"Eliminates one type of disease ''or'' infection from the body of the subject."

The classic version was saner: "Eliminates all disease, plague, or infection microorganisms of one chosen type from the body of the subject. (...) If no organism is responsible, the spell has no effect!"

The way Cure Disease is set up in 4e as written it would seem to be a great way to cure scurvy or beriberi neither of which is the result of a vitamin deficiency.

[maximara]

Made a blunder and can only correct it in post:

Originally Posted by maximara

The way Cure Disease is set up in 4e as written it would seem to be a great way to cure scurvy or beriberi neither of which is the result of a vitamin deficiency.

Should read:

The way Cure Disease is set up in 4e as written it would seem to be a great way to cure scurvy or beriberi neither of which is the result of a microbe or virus.

[mlangsdorf]

I'm perfectly okay with magical healing curing vitamin deficiencies. It's magic, not science.

Casting Cure Disease to cure cancer is conceptually a little weird, but it also means magic doesn't need a specialized spell for that.

Using Cure Disease to relieve hypothyroidism or hypoparathyroidism is a lot weirder, but I think it's still acceptable.

But if it really bothers you, just reword it as "Eliminates one type of infectious disease" and I think that catches most of the corner cases.

[maximara]

Originally Posted by mlangsdorf

I'm perfectly okay with magical healing curing vitamin deficiencies. It's magic, not science.

Even magic has is rules. Heck, Thaumaturgy is defined as the "science" or "physics" of magic by Isaac Bonewits in his 1971 Real Magic that he turned into a RPG reference called Authentic Thaumaturgy (1978, 1998, 2005). This definition has been used in Role Playing Games (RPGs) such as GURPS (Generic Universal RolePlaying System), novels such as China Miéville's Perdido Street Station, and real world works such as Marcus Cordey's Magical Theory and Tradition.

Originally Posted by Anthony

While true, I'm not sure that it matters or makes it particularly more potent than it already was.

It is definitely more potent — you can cure arthritis, gallstones, cancer, IBS, GERD, and a host of other diseases. That is insane for a spell with a Prerequisite Count of 5 . If you are in for a SCP crossover it would make a great Christmas present for SCP-049. ;-)

[edk926]

It should take penalties for difficulty of infection to cure. It could cure cancer, but it should probably be around -10 to the roll. A standard IQ 14 and Magery 3 mage with a skill 15 *might* be able to succeed if they are lucky with the roll, but it wouldn't be something to count on, especially if you put a limit to the times they can attempt to cure it. Plus if it's something that wouldn't even be known to the World, you can disallow accurate diagnosis and attach another -5 to the roll.

[Refplace]

At typical fantasy TL's the germ theory is not even an option.
Deafferenting between scientific causes that are not known in the campaign setting does not make a lot of science. I am ok with it as is and some illness just isn't covered in a specific setting.

[mr beer]

There are many causes of disease and I don't see the benefit of seperating the generic Cure Disease spell into Cure Disease (Vitamin Deficiency), Cure Disease (Parasitic Infestation), Cure Disease (Genetic Abnormality), Cure Disease (Senescence), Cure Disease (Radiation), Cure Disease (Prions) and so on in most campaigns. But if the setting would benefit from this level of detail, sure go ahead.

[mlangsdorf]

Originally Posted by maximara

Even magic has is rules....

That's true, but the rules and definitions of magic do not need to match the definitions of modern science.

Originally Posted by maximara

It is definitely more potent — you can cure arthritis, gallstones, cancer, IBS, GERD, and a host of other diseases. That is insane for a spell with a Prerequisite Count of 5

Prerequisite counts were determined arbitrarily by Steve Jackson and (IIRC) Eric Blankenship; they are by no means a balance tool or a measure of spell power. Lightning Armor is almost the same spell as Flaming Armor but has a prerequisite count of 12 to Flaming Armor's 7. Grease is a more powerful spell than Ice Slick with very similar effects, but Grease has a prerequisite count of 1 and Ice Slick has a count of 4. Great Haste is generally considered a much more powerful spell than Light Tread, but has a lower prerequisite count. And so on and so forth.

In an adventuring context, a Cure Disease spell that can cure GERD or cancer is not especially more powerful than a Cure Disease spell that cannot. I suppose if your game is Fantasy House, MD about the antics of a genius mage healer and his apprentices, then it would be too powerful, but running any kind of serious medicine/physicians game with RAW GURPS Magic would be a huge headache anyway.

As a side note, if someone has run a Fantasy House, MD game, I'd love to know the details.

[sir_pudding]

I suspect the spell wasn't written with the idea you might have nutritional deficiencies be a thing that can just happen in a game.

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by mlangsdorf

As a side note, if someone has run a Fantasy House, MD game, I'd love to know the details.

Is my Doctor Cox (from Scrubs), if he were a healer paladin come close enough?