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Old 01-12-2019, 08:29 AM   #71
Icelander
 
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Default The Founders and Leaders of the Response to the Occult in the Vatican

Some of the people most important to the modern response of the Catholic Church to the supernatural events occurring since 1980 have been:
  • Pope John Paul II (1978-2005)
  • Pope Benedict XVI (2005-2013), previously Cardinal Joseph Aloisius Ratzinger, President of the International Theological Commission (1981–2005), Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (1981–2005), Dean of the College of Cardinals (2002–2005)*
  • Cardinal Raffaele Farina, SDB, Secretary of the Pontifical Committee of Historical Sciences (1982-1986), Undersecretary of Pontifical Council for Culture (1986-1997), Prefect of the Vatican Library (1997–2007), Librarian of the Holy Roman Church (2007–2012), Archivist of the Holy Roman Church (2007–2012)
  • Father Superior Peter Hans Kolvenbach, SJ (1983-2008)
  • Cardinal Eduardo Martínez Somalo, Prefect of the Congregation for Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life (1992–2004), Camerlengo of the Holy Roman Church (1993–2007)
  • Cardinal Jean-Louis Tauran, Secretary for Relations with States (1990–2003), Librarian of the Holy Roman Church (2003–2007), Archivist of the Holy Roman Church (2003–2007), Protodeacon of the College of Cardinals (2011–2014), President of the Pontifical Council for Interreligious Dialogue (2007-2018), Camarlengo of the Holy Roman Church (2014-2018)
  • Father Superior Adolfo Nicolás Pachón, SJ (2008-2016)
  • Cardinal Tarcisio Pietro Evasio Bertone, SDB, Secretary of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (1995-2002), Cardinal Secretary of State (2006–2013), Camerlengo of the Holy Roman Church (2007–2014)
  • Father Leonard Boyle, Prefect of the Vatican Library (1984-1997)
  • Monsignor Cesare Pasini, Prefect of the Vatican Library (2007-)
  • Cardinal Alberto Bovone, Secretary of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (1984–1995), Prefect of the Congregation for the Causes of Saints (1995-1998)
  • Cardinal Angelo Amato, S.D.B., Secretary of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (2002–2008), Prefect of the Congregation for the Causes of Saints (2008-2018)
  • Cardinal Luigi Poggi, Apostolic Nuncio to Italy and San Marino (1986-1992), Librarian of the Holy Roman Church (1992–1998), Archivist of the Holy Roman Church (1992–1998), Protodeacon of the College of Cardinals (2002–2005)
  • Fr. Candido Amantini, C.P. (d. 1992)
  • Reverend Gabriele Amorth, SSP (d. 2016)
  • Fra' Andrew Willoughby Ninian Bertie, Prince and Grand Master of the Sovereign Military Order of Malta (Supremus Militaris Ordo Hospitalarius Sancti Ioannis Hierosolymitani Rhodiensis et Melitensis) (1988-2008)
  • Archbishop Angelo Acerbi, Prelate of the Sovereign Military Order of Malta (2001-2015)
  • Fra' Giacomo dalla Torre del Tempio di Sanguinetto, Grand Commander of the Sovereign Military Order of Malta (2004-2009), Grand Prior of Rome (2009-2017), Prince and Grand Master of the Sovereign Military Order of Malta (2017 (acting)/2018-)
  • Cardinal Jorge María Mejía, Vice President of the Pontifical Commission of Justice and Peace (1986–1994), Secretary of the Congregation for Bishops (1994–1998), Secretary of the College of Cardinals (1994–1998), Archivist of the Holy Roman Church (1998–2003), Librarian of the Holy Roman Church (1998–2003)
  • Cardinal William Joseph Levada, Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (2005-2012)
  • Cardinal Gerhard Ludwig Müller, Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (2012-2017)
  • Cardinal Ivan Dias, Titular Archbishop of Rusibisir (1982–1996), Apostolic Pro-Nuncio to Ghana, Togo and Benin (1982–1987), Apostolic Nuncio to Korea (1987–1991), Apostolic Nuncio to Albania (1991–1996), Archbishop of Bombay (1996–2006), Prefect of the Congregation for the Evangelization of Peoples (2006-2011)
  • Cardinal Ferdinand Filoni, Apostolic Nuncio to Iraq (2001–2006), Apostolic Nuncio to Jordan (2001–2006), Apostolic Nuncio to Philippines (2006–2007), Substitute of the Secretariat of State (2007–2011), Prefect of the Congregation for the Evangelization of Peoples (2011-)

Anyone have suggestions for other real people who might have been (or still are) influential in the Catholic investigation of the occult and response to supernatural evil?

*In 1997, when he turned 70, Ratzinger asked Pope John Paul II for permission to leave the Congregation of the Doctrine of Faith and to become an archivist in the Vatican Secret Archives and a librarian in the Vatican Library, but Pope John Paul ll refused his assent.
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Old 01-12-2019, 01:23 PM   #72
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Default Re: The Founders and Leaders of the Response to the Occult in the Vatican

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Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
Some of the people most important to the modern response of the Catholic Church to the supernatural events occurring since 1980 …
A few questions about this:

Is Pope Francis involved? Is Pope-Emeritus Benedict still involved?

Does religious faith, or Religious Rank, seem to have any effect on supernatural creatures? If so, does this depend on which religion is involved, and/or the kind and level of initiation?
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Old 01-12-2019, 01:46 PM   #73
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Default Re: The Founders and Leaders of the Response to the Occult in the Vatican

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A few questions about this:

Is Pope Francis involved?
To all appearances, remarkably little. Which, of course, suggests all sorts of things, considering the leading role his predecessors played, but as no one Kessler gets information from is enough of a Curia insider to know, it remains grounds for speculation.

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Is Pope-Emeritus Benedict still involved?
Occultists speculate widely that the resignation of Pope Benedict XVI must have some supernatural explanation or be the result of some sort of occult infighting within the highest echelons of the Church.

Certainly, as Cardinal Ratzinger and later as Pope, the man knew everything and was deeply involved in planning and executing the Vatican's preternatural response. Both those who are not predisposed to trust the Catholic Church and those who look to the Vatican for leadership in such times find it hard to accept that the man simply felt too old to continue and is now peacefully retired.

Kessler, for example, believes that the Pope Emeritus retired in order to allow a figurehead to take over the necessary public appearances and constant glare of media exposure, while he focuses on arcane and esoteric matters. But then again, Kessler believes that Cardinal Ratzinger is the most powerful warlock on Earth, which is surely hyperbole.*

*And if by 'warlock' he means to imply that His Holiness has any truck with demonic forces, surely a vile calumny. It is fairly widely accepted among Vatican-watching occultists that even as Cardinal Ratzinger, the man who would become Pope Benedict XVI was a practicing thaumaturge, but there is no suggestion that he has ever used magic in a way that is not approved by the Holy See. Indeed, as Cardinal and Pope, he wrote much of the rules that govern the use of magic by Catholic priests and laity.

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Does religious faith, or Religious Rank, seem to have any effect on supernatural creatures? If so, does this depend on which religion is involved, and/or the kind and level of initiation?
Religious people like to think so. There is no proven link between supernatural effectiveness and religious ordination or religious faith, however.
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Old 01-13-2019, 06:33 PM   #74
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Default An Example of an Occult Organisation - Need a Name

Say that I decide that there is an organisation of occultists in New England. It started as an informal network for information-sharing among people who learned about the existence of the supernatural and in the wake of some scary events in Boston in the years 2010-2013, it developed into a cooperative organisation for collective self-defence.

The nucleus of the group was a tight knit group of friends and allies who found themselves cast into the role of protectors and guardians of Boston from supernatural threats. One was a former Master Sergeant of military police and BPD detective (Michael O'Connor), one his cousin, former SORT member, security contractor and straight-edge biker (Ryan O'Reilly), one a Harvard professor of religious anthropology (David Reynard) and one a high-flying lawyer with political aspirations (Richard Ambrose Lawson Jr.).

Mike O'Connor has a terminal case of Charitable and while he is a devout Catholic, he is neither judgmental nor dismissive of those of other faiths. As a result, anyone who had a connection with the occult underground of Boston eventually learned that if they got into something more than they could handle, they could turn to O'Connor. Eventually, O'Connor knew most everyone in Boston's occult circles, as well as quite a lot of people in New England and elsewhere on the East Coast who had tangential connections to something supernatural.

This loose network of contacts, friends and informants eventually grew into an informal organisation and finally, some of the leading occultists decided that they needed a formal organisation, if only to present some sort of counterweight to the 800 pound gorilla in the East Coast occult underground, a powerful criminal organisation composed of vampires, both East European and homegrown.

After a series of adventures over the last few years, Mike O'Connor had formed strong bonds with some sympathetic clerics and had the loyalty of many former and current military men, policemen, firefighters and other members of the Knights of Columbus. O'Connor also had the gratitude and respect of ever-increasing numbers of occult-aware people in Boston and environs, as he always had time to help, believed stories when others would not and never demanded payment, even if he risked his life to save foolish occultists who'd brought something terrible upon themselves.

While O'Connor would not accept a salary and took no Vow of Obedience* to the Catholic Church, he is regarded by the Vatican as a true servant of the Church and one doing the Lord's work. As a result, and because any number of priests associated with the Archdiocese of Boston have learned that O'Connor truly won't ask for anything beyond what is absolutely necessary in order to help others, O'Connor tends to get whatever help he asks for from any Catholic priest or bishop he has dealt with in the past.

Indeed, the Vatican is prepared to provide him with much more than merely modest assistance and has in the past made it clear to several supernatural beings that any attack on O'Connor or his allies would be viewed by the Vatican's secret supernatural protectors as an extremely unfriendly act.

David Reynard had become the most powerful magus any of the minor occultists knew and had a very useful network of acquaintances, ranging from occult-aware academics in both the British Shadow Court and the Vatican's corresponding conspiracy to stern men from his native Israel, who wanted him to come back to work for them. And Reynard somehow formed strong personal relationships with a number of shot callers with the vampiric crime organisation, managing to broker a peace, of sorts, with them.

And while Dick Lawson suffered personal setbacks and family tragedy, his wealth and political influence continued growing, even as the chances of him personally winning elected office grew dimmer as the rumours about him grew darker. Lawson moved from criminal law into corporate law and from corporate law to political lobbying.

At some point, then, all the minor occultists, curiosity dealers, esoteric researchers, previous victims of the supernatural, amateur monster hunters and other hangers-on of the occult underground in Boston and New England as a whole, decided to form a benevolent organisation of mutual support. They hammered out rules of conduct with the vampires and perhaps some smaller groups of less volatile supernatural beings.

They established some form of structure to resolve disputes and by more or less unanimous consent invested Mike O'Connor with unofficial law enforcement powers over the supernatural. He became the 'Sheriff of Boston' to the occult underground.

Now, what should I name this organisation of minor talents and occult dilettantes?

I'm partial to something using 'Mystic' as part of the name. The combination of the river, the literal meaning and the fact that the characters behind this bit of background were the PCs of my first campaign in this setting, 'Boston Mystic', makes it too delicious to resist.

*Law-abiding and Catholic as he is, Mike O'Connor is ultimately responsible primarily to his conscience and his wife, neither of whom he'd ever disobey, and so has grown less likely with age and wisdom to obey unconditionally under any circumstances.
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Old 01-14-2019, 03:15 AM   #75
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Default Re: The Founders and Leaders of the Response to the Occult in the Vatican

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Does religious faith, or Religious Rank, seem to have any effect on supernatural creatures? If so, does this depend on which religion is involved, and/or the kind and level of initiation?
To clarify, while secular thaumatologists are certain that religious faith of the caster, as such, has no effect on the efficiency of spells or rituals, there is substantial evidence that the cumulative effects of human belief, faith and superstition has considerable impact on the forms supernatural beings take and what rules they are governed by. In addition, whether something is difficult to do with magic or not seems to depend not only on the caster's skill and power, but also on whether it goes against the expectations of society at large or whether it fits into some unconscious belief system that is sufficiently powerful to allow the magician to tap into it to more easily perform the desired effect.

Spirits, ultraterrestials and various malleable preternatural beings are often shaped by the cultural beliefs where they manifest and even the personalities and memories of such beings may be affected by some form of consensus of imagination and belief. Indeed, while reality is reality, it seems that where the influence of other worlds is strong and the mysterious force referred to as 'magic' or 'mana' impacts the natural laws of our universe, reality becomes more subjective and may be shaped by the unconscious expectations of humanity, as much or more as it can be changed by ritual magic.

In what may be a reflection of this strange 'reality' of magic, people who are, because of their birth or position, widely regarded as being 'special' in some mystical way, actually are more likely to exhibit various mystical abilities. Simply by virtue of his position, a Pope has access to a lot of unconscious belief that reinforces his importance and significance. It is not known if this can make someone born without magical talent into a mage, but what is known is that even without much spare time to develop skill in ritual magic, both Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI were capable of working pretty powerful, if subtle, effects.

By the same token, HM Queen Elizabeth II has prophetic visions and dreams, which often prove very relevant to the defence of her realm. Any number of other royals, far more than random chance can account for, have also displayed some supernatural talents. And while this may be selection bias at work (i.e. the Shadow Court and the Vatican's conspiracy, especially the Knights of Malta, both recruit mostly from a certain social milieu), it is nevertheless true that those of noble birth or even with a title earned in their lifetime, seem more likely to have some sort of mystical edge.

Whether this extends to unofficial positions like that of Mike O'Connor's supernatural "Sheriff of Boston" title or, for that matter, the Status of a billionaire with thousands of very loyal, almost feudal employees, is an open question.

As it happens, Mike O'Connor has no obvious mystical gifts, but he (naturally) credits his faith in God with having preserved him through many dangers. He also started out profoundly skeptical in the existence of supernatural things in any context other than a religious one and still refuses to believe that any magical effect can affect him unless it be God's will. And it is certainly true that O'Connor has gone up against a lot of creatures with supernatural abilities and he still lives, apparently with his wits and personality intact. Maybe there is something to his faith after all. Or maybe the former master sergeant is just a really tough hombre.
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Old 01-14-2019, 11:06 AM   #76
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Default An Aside on Magic and Sanity

This was a reply in another thread, but more properly belongs here, as setting background and explanations.

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Though it's worth keeping in mind that this because magic does not work in reality. This tends to keep sane, practical people from spending years studying it. It carries over as a trope in secret magic settings because the central concept is that magic works but somehow doesn't change anything. But it's worth considering that the mix of people willing to devote years of effort to something most people don't believe in should be somewhat different where it produces results. You get a mix more like avant garde artists or hobby flower gardeners - some of whom are obsessive crazies sure, but it's no longer a *requirement*.
I suppose that by now, there might be some mentally stable people who are practicing magic. If so, however, no PC has ever met them.

The setting background is that ever since the 1980s, subtle supernatural phenomena have been occurring on our Earth. There is no evidence that anything supernatural existed in the 20th century before this. In other words, the world was our own, exactly, until some point in the 1980s.

Depending on how credible one might find anecdotal evidence from before the 20th century, it might be possible to maintain that supernatural phenomena had existed before, even if they had not been proven by scientists. In any case, modern occultists can find useful magical knowledge that was written before 1900 and the prevailing theory is therefore that the paranormal existed in some form before, but was dormant, inaccessible or otherwise undetectable for most of the 20th century.

The phenomena that occurred in the 1980s were mostly incredibly subtle or confined to extremely remote places. Very few supernatural phenomena from before 1988 are even attested in any other form that anecdotal and it's an individual researcher's choice how many of those stories to credit.

Before 1990 or so, almost no one knew that anything out of the ordinary theoretically existed in the world. Discovering a change point between the campaign world and the real world would have been almost impossible, as most of the differences amounted to a few people in the world having had paranormal experiences, in private, that were true. They may or may not have told trusted friends, but few or any historical changes can be pinpointed.

The exception is that some of the organisations that exist in the modern world of 2018 had their origins in private conversations between trusted friends in the 1980s, about some inexplicable events one of them had witnessed. No organisation that any PC knows about can truly have been said to have been founded any earlier than in 1989, when the Vatican took its first steps to discreetly investigate the secret archives and various reports in order to determine the true situation. From that point, it's possible to date the inception of an inner circle of Vatican insiders who are aware of the potential existence of occult phenomena.

At a similar point in time, an informal network among the inner circle of HM Queen Elizabeth II was coming into existence, based on Her Majesty's prophetic dreams, which had by that time become specific enough to convince several of her close confidants that no other explanation than a previously unknown human capability was remotely plausible.

There were also other, less important groups of friends and confidants, who moved from discussing phenomena to actively researching and trying to collect evidence. Due to the way magic seemed to function, evidence was extremely hard to come by. Proximity to high technology, skeptics and various modern conveniences likely to be located near any scientific laboratory mostly made any supernatural phenomena impossible to replicate. Evidence, at least in the 1980s and the early 1990s, meant testimony of someone whose senses and intellect one trusted, not any kind of physical evidence or data that would convince a skeptic.

In the 1990s, however, the real world and the campaign world start to diverge. Instead of the fairly rapid and sustained drop in crime rates in the US and some other Western countries seen in the 1990s, the campaign world saw the high urban crime rate of the late 1970s and of the 1980s, continue to rise. Violent crime, homicides, missing persons, all of these indicators gradually rose during the 1990s, instead of dropping as in our world. The rise was almost imperceptible in the early part of the decade, but by 1995 or so, the campaign world was noticeably worse than the real world, even if only marginally so.

Even so, the supernatural was quite subtle and did not produce much in the way of replicable results or effects that could be independently verified. It might be possible to theorize that something odd was going on in many incidents on record, but as for smoking gun evidence to convince any skeptics, it simply did not seem to exist. For whatever reason, apparent otherworldly beings or cryptids, when killed and taken to a laboratory, usually turned out to be mentally ill people or sick animals of quite natural origin, even if witnesses had testified to seeing much larger and more frightening beings.

Even ritual magic did not work reliably or predictably during the 1990s, with few occultists being capable of working any magic that could not be dismissed as coincidence. It was possible to study magic, yes, but not as if one would study a scientific discipline, as the results were still frustratingly subjective.

In the 2000s, there were finally some greater changes and some places in the world now had uncanny things happen on a regular basis. But there was a very strong correlation between areas where few or no people lived and where most of the more noticable phenomena was observed and in those areas where occult incidents occurred within human society, they tended to do it at night and among people who already believed in it, but were not necessarily credible witnesses.

Even so, with the ever increasing scope and power of the paranormal phenomena, it was inevitable that governments and authorities would start to take note. In 2005, the 'Shadow Court of HM Queen Elizabeth II', the British conspiracy dedicated to studying the phenomena, had decided that the rising crime rates and disappearances were almost certainly connected to the occult and that the supernatural represented a greater threat to the UK and the world than any terrorist organisation or mundane criminals.

By every reasonable metric, the veil of secrecy around the occult should have collapsed in the 2010s, probably early in the decade. In 2018, it still hasn't, but official denials increasingly ring hollow for the numerous people whose daily lives bring them into contact with unexplained events, deaths and disappearances.

What might explain the inability of believers to convince anyone of the true state of affairs is the Facade, an inexplicable mechanism by which either humanity as a whole or perhaps the world, tries to close the minds of mortals to the inexplicable and edit out memories of the impossible and supernatural (Pyramid #3/97 'Mask of Humanity' by Christoper R. Rice).

In any case, this means that anyone who studies the occult in the campaign world either started only a few years ago (at the absolute most thirty eight years, but more likely 5-10) or is the kind of person who studied it before anyone was aware that it actually existed. And due to the lack of official institutions or authorities that even acknowledge magic, it's not as if the study is a normal career choice, even by 2018.

More than that, due to the Facade, those who believe in the supernatural tend to be strong-willed and somewhat odd. And because of the subjective and confusing nature of magic, practitioners have to have a somewhat flexible mind.

It is theorized that mana and magic, by their very nature, may be some sort of invasive energy caused by other worlds bleeding into the reality of our own. Certainly, it is true that otherworldly creatures are spotted most often in areas where it is easier to work magic and that their presence seems to stimulate magical energies.

And it seems axiomatic that most of the otherworldly beings who are prepared to teach humans the use of magic are much less likely to be benevolent than they are to be predatory. The idea that magic is a corrosive and dangerous force has much to recommend it, even if it can't be proven. It may well be that studying the mysteries of magic in itself tends to have a deleterious effect on human sanity.
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Old 01-15-2019, 12:56 PM   #77
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Default Major Power Groups Aware of the Occult

The United States, China, EU, Russia and the rest of the usual suspects are still the major powers of the world of my setting. However, as the official policy of these polities is that the supernatural doesn't exist, any influence they might have in the worldwide occult community is split between many smaller factions within each country.

China is a bit of a special case, as official crime records from its authorities do not show the steady rise in homicides, violent crime and disappearances ever since the 1980s that has convinced astute observers in many other countries that something must be deeply wrong. Most occultists in important positions assume that Chinese authorities are simply falsifying the data, but there is a paranoid fringe of occultists who believe that China is spared hostile paranormal attention for some dark reason.

In any case, among the most powerful occult groups that any clued-in occultist might know about is the secret supernatural organisation within the Vatican and the benevolent conspiracy around the British crown.

The French might end up with a more unified and occult-aware policy than most countries, though still one run mostly by career public servants, not involving politicians.

I'm also wondering whether other religious organisations should have what amounts to a unified response to the supernatural or if only the Catholic and perhaps the Orthodox churches are secretive, powerful and hierarchical enough to make that plausible.

I'm considering having the Aga Khan be aware of the supernatural and influential even outside the Ismaili Nizari community, often serving as intermediary and envoy between various insular occultist groups in Europe and others in Muslim nations, where his charities do their work.

Iran, in the person of Khameini and his clerics, should have a strict policy that any otherwordly beings or preternatural powers are proscribed by Islam, but I want individual Islamic cultures, nations, sects, groups, clerics, philosophers and private persons to have a wide range of beliefs in that respect, and some mullahs and imans to accept the possibility of 'djinn' (i.e. unearthly beings) as no more profane than any other non-believer and if they accept Allah, perhaps should be accorded the same rights as other Muslims.

Pakistan, with a Vile Vortex covering significant parts of its territory, are riven by factionalism, conspiracies and power groups either influenced by something from the Vortex or motivated to destroy everything that comes out of it. And these aren't merely factions driving different agencies or branches of government, but sometimes multiple factions in tne same government agency.

I'm not sure whether I'll have space for another Muslim group among the major powers of the supernatural world, but I'm open to suggestions. I'd prefer cabals among royal families, fraternal organisations, scholarly networks or other formal or informal NGOs over more nation-states who have a unified occult policy.

Brazil and Japan each have a Vile Vortex to conzider and so their response is of crucial importance. I admit that I have, so far, no idea what I want to be the status of Japan and what kind of occult-aware groups associated with it I should focus on.

I imagine that Brazil has a siege mentality in regards to the supernatural, viewing everything unnatural as dangerous and evil, both due to monster incursions, evil spirits and the malevolent influence of various occult things in the criminal underworld of Brazil. I imagine that Brazil has secret commando troops of monster hunters recruited from the military and paramilitary police, more interested in ending threats than understanding the occult. Most likely, they receive assistance and support from the Vatican, but many within the Church might worry about their methods, while the most hard-line anti-occult warriors in Brazil feel that the Church is too soft on witches and those within it who study forbidden tomes are likely to be compromised by evil.

lwcamp had an excellent suggestion about India.
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I could easily see the Hindu-nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) that currently controls the government in India to unofficially encourage and support magic workers that explain their powers with reference to Hinduism and traditional Indian Hindu beliefs. Acknowledgement might not be consistent - the party may not have a public platform regarding the supernatural, but many high ranking members would express open belief, and point to many of the miracles and powers of modern magicians as justification of their beliefs. This official encouragement would lead to many magicians and holy men coming public (and some of them might actually have genuine powers), with many seeing occult power as a way of currying favor with or rising in power among the BJP.

Given that one of these vile vorticies sits smack in the middle of India, this could lead to explosive results.

Luke
Explosive results are one possibility, but another is that I might propose the BJP as a major player in the occult world, which, as they have the backing of a massive nation-state, might make them pretty powerful. At least potentially so, if their enthusiastic acceptance of the occult is a recent development.

What other occult power groups should their be?

What am I forgetting?

I need 'neutral' groups, not associated with a nation-state or religion, but with either the study of magic as a whole or some kind of magic.

Also, maybe some groups associated with a particular Vile Vortex.
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Old 01-15-2019, 02:33 PM   #78
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Default Re: [MH] Vile Vortices and Supernatural Threats

The book The Morning of the Magicians was written by a Frenchman and he was a leftist. Occult and mystical ideas, within certain limits, are respected in France. There are occult groups in France that talk about forms of spiritual democracy. A type of Freemasonry that could be described as political, progressive, and spiritual/occultist, is part of French culture and is strong among scholars and professionals.

So France as a nation aware of the occult and dealing with it intelligently is a sound choice.
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Old 01-15-2019, 03:39 PM   #79
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Default Re: [MH] Vile Vortices and Supernatural Threats

Y'know, George Gurdjieff was allegedly dead by 1949, but his alleged mystic powers should have been sufficient to survive death. If not, his followers of the Fourth Way would be running around with possible mystic abilities.
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Old 01-15-2019, 04:20 PM   #80
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Default Re: [MH] Vile Vortices and Supernatural Threats

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Y'know, George Gurdjieff was allegedly dead by 1949, but his alleged mystic powers should have been sufficient to survive death. If not, his followers of the Fourth Way would be running around with possible mystic abilities.
Try this, Gurdjieff was replaced or possessed as a teenager. A powerful rebel against the powers behind/within the Vortices took him over. The Fourth Way groups are catspaws of those hostile to those powers, but not of necessity friendly to humanity. Although they may be looking to ally with humanity.

Such an alliance could be like the English and French alliances with Native American communities. Which normally led to the Native Americans being sacrificed for European imperial agendas. Or it could be sincere. But even a sincere alliance could be a disaster for humanity.
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