Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-23-2007, 09:01 PM   #21
Gavynn
 
Gavynn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Default Re: The Point Always Beats the Edge Revisited and MA-compatible

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icelander
I was just curious how anyone had gone about proving that studded leather was never used. I'm not really asserting that it was, you see, but I can't see how anyone would be able to be certain.
I'll defer to Dan the Great on that one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icelander
It depends. I'd have to see how big the rivets are on the inside. It could be DR 1, 2 or 3; all depending on how tough the leather is and how big the rivets are on the inside.
Well, this is neither here nor there, you can see the inside of the rivets on the inside back of the armor. It is clearly put together with very modern snap rivets (sometimes called pop rivets). I'd go with no additional protection of any kind for having those extra rivets on it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icelander
I'd give that DR 3, sure, and call it reinforced leather. GURPS doesn't have stats for it yet, but I use something similar to Light Scale.
A tragedy to be sure. All hail the sometime-in-the-unknown-future release of Low Tech.
__________________
Heath Robinson
-----
I created a jumbo-sized HeroQuest board from foam and I also built a case for a 55 inch TV to display animated RPG maps.

Last edited by Gavynn; 10-24-2007 at 12:09 PM.
Gavynn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2007, 09:13 PM   #22
Icelander
 
Icelander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
Default Re: The Point Always Beats the Edge Revisited and MA-compatible

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gavynn
Well, this is neither here nor there, you can see the inside of the rivets on the inside back of the armor. It is clearly put together with very modern snap rivets (sometimes called pop rivets). I'd go with no additional protection of any kind for having those extra rivets on it.
I guess not, but if they're relatively tough, they might help against slashing attacks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gavynn
A tragedy to be sure. All hail the sometime-in-the-unknown-future release of Low Tech.
Cabaret Chicks on Ice, you mean? ;)

Yeah, it's eagerly awaited.
__________________
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Icelander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2007, 07:19 AM   #23
DanHoward
 
DanHoward's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
Default Re: The Point Always Beats the Edge Revisited and MA-compatible

Rivets ("studs") were used historically for three things: 1) as decoration; 2) to join pieces of cloth or leather together; or 3) to attach metal plates to a cloth or leather foundation. No. 3 is what has been misinterpreted as "studded armour" because only the rivet heads are visible. Examples include brigandines, coats of plates, corrazinas, etc. The studs only serve to hold the real protection in place and provide no DR themselves. If you add studs to leather you are likely to actually reduce the DR since attacks are less likely to glance off. Their only real use is for abrasion resistance which is why some biker jackets have them.
DanHoward is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2007, 07:31 AM   #24
Icelander
 
Icelander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
Default Re: The Point Always Beats the Edge Revisited and MA-compatible

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanHoward
3) to attach metal plates to a cloth or leather foundation. No. 3 is what has been misinterpreted as "studded armour" because only the rivet are visible.
And a leather coat with some pieces of metal attached is what I'd call 'studded leather' or 'reinforced leather'.

Which, incidentally, should probably have GURPS stats.
__________________
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Icelander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2007, 07:42 AM   #25
DanHoward
 
DanHoward's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
Default Re: The Point Always Beats the Edge Revisited and MA-compatible

But it is not what the so-called armour books call studded leather. The term is used to describe leather with metal studs and nothing else. If you have to use something then call it reinforced leather. Add +1 to the DR and be done with it.
DanHoward is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2007, 09:31 AM   #26
Icelander
 
Icelander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
Default Re: The Point Always Beats the Edge Revisited and MA-compatible

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanHoward
But it is not what the so-called armour books call studded leather. The term is used to describe leather with metal studs and nothing else. If you have to use something then call it reinforced leather. Add +1 to the DR and be done with it.
I don't care what it's called, but I fail to see why 'studded leather' is automatically a wrong way to describe a leather coat with metal attached by means of studs.

And I agree that adding a +1 to the DR is correct, but that leaves the questions of weight and cost. Currently, I have used the Light Scale values, but perhaps cost should be a little higher and the DR modifiers in my house-rules slightly different.
__________________
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Icelander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2007, 10:46 AM   #27
Gavynn
 
Gavynn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Default Re: The Point Always Beats the Edge Revisited and MA-compatible

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icelander
I don't care what it's called, but I fail to see why 'studded leather' is automatically a wrong way to describe a leather coat with metal attached by means of studs.
We are trying to guide you away from ambiguous terminology.
__________________
Heath Robinson
-----
I created a jumbo-sized HeroQuest board from foam and I also built a case for a 55 inch TV to display animated RPG maps.
Gavynn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2007, 10:49 AM   #28
Icelander
 
Icelander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
Default Re: The Point Always Beats the Edge Revisited and MA-compatible

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gavynn
We are trying to guide you away from ambiguous terminology.
All the gods preserve us from ambigious terminology! ;)
__________________
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Icelander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2007, 11:00 AM   #29
Gavynn
 
Gavynn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Default Re: The Point Always Beats the Edge Revisited and MA-compatible

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icelander
All the gods preserve us from ambiguous terminology! ;)
I sure that as a lawyer you are well acquainted with the problems often generated by ambiguous terminology. It is certainly drilled in these philosophy classes I'm in. :) I am sure all the more in law school.
__________________
Heath Robinson
-----
I created a jumbo-sized HeroQuest board from foam and I also built a case for a 55 inch TV to display animated RPG maps.
Gavynn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2007, 11:32 AM   #30
Icelander
 
Icelander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
Default Re: The Point Always Beats the Edge Revisited and MA-compatible

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gavynn
I sure that as a lawyer you are well acquainted with the problems often generated by ambiguous terminology. It is certainly drilled in these philosophy classes I'm in. :) I am sure all the more in law school.
Indeed.

But unlike philosophy*, the study of law thrives on and welcomes ambigiouity. Unecessary precision is just as unwise as unecessary ambigiouity.

The Basic Set makes no reference to 'reinforced leather'. It does mention 'studded leather'. Therefore, any fair attempt to add to the rules there, and not redo them alltogether, may mention 'studded leather'.

If I were choosing the name, that's one thing, but I'm simply using a term from the rulebook.

*Or perhaps, according to Douglas Adams, just like philosophy. ;)
__________________
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Icelander is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
cabaret chicks on ice, house rules, low-tech, martial arts

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:12 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.