Cards you want to see

[Sam Mitschke]

I’m not sure if I’ve ever actually said this publicly, but one thing we REALLY insist upon in development is minimizing/eliminating any bookkeeping that isn’t present right there on the table. There are very few memory elements. Fire is the most obvious example of this, as we use the flipped armor slider as a clear marker of the status change that carries across rounds.

That may not be important to you with your house rules, but it’s a key aspect of the accessibility of the game as published…so it might be worth keeping in mind.

[beetle496]

Originally Posted by Sam Mitschke

I’m not sure if I’ve ever actually said this publicly, but one thing we REALLY insist upon in development is minimizing/eliminating any bookkeeping that isn’t present right there on the table.

This principle came through for me. It is the main reason that I don’t like Blast Wrench taking a control next turn — there is no clean on-table mechanism for that.

Bookkeeping – between games – for on-going character xp development, I don’t feel violates this.

[JimTullis]

Beetle,
I too would have liked the more modular approach of Pick Gun, Pick Caliber, Pick Extra Sauce. That's why I questioned the current method very early on.

I may have been thinking of the Blast version of th RR when I was typing about an Incendiary Slug gun. No reason there shouldn't be one unless it breaks the game.

I always loved Bumper Triggers, but I see how broken they could be in 6th. The only way I could see them working would be as a 1 shot item that fired a low BP weapon on that side.

Maybe 2BP for an ANTI-TAILGATER that triggered a Dropped Weapon UNDER the tailgater's car on impact.

[beetle496]

Originally Posted by JimTullis

I too would have liked the more modular approach of Pick Gun, Pick Caliber, Pick Extra Sauce.

There is no reason we cannot keep discussing what those mechanics might look like.

That's why I questioned the current method very early on.

You are more prescient than I! I like the cards, but it seems like both too much and never enough.

I may have been thinking of the Blast version of th RR when I was typing about an Incendiary Slug gun. No reason there shouldn't be one unless it breaks the game.

I agree.

I always loved Bumper Triggers, but I see how broken they could be in 6th. The only way I could see them working would be as a 1 shot item that fired a low BP weapon on that side.

I think I might like them as a defensive mechanism only. How could that limitation could be wired in? I think I would like the melee weapons to be a little bit stronger, mostly since they are cinematic! Bumper Triggers for those might be okay. Bumper Triggers for Rockets was one of the things that broke OG CW, so we need to tread carefully.

Originally Posted by Magesmiley

I'd argue that, despite the Stability Controller (which can convert a single point), CP are really worth more than BP… Incidentally, the Stability Controller is almost always on my list of must-have items when the budget hits a certain point.

I am feeling the same.

Originally Posted by PresidentTwoeagles

At the end of a game, surviving crew members get N crew points that they can spend on their crew card, gear, or sidearms and that crew member is healed up for the next game. If that crew member dies (so no "unconscious" state), the points reset. You could also give points for feats like a perfect speed 5 D4, or a max damage roll on a decently-sized weapons, etc.

For an on-going campaign, 1 CP per arena duel seems like it might be okay, and I do want xp effects to accumulate quickly, but max level is nominally six/legend, and I want to respect that cap. One other tension is that I feel is that xp should not go towards sidearms and gear. OTOH, acquiring nice equipment is a staple with RPGs, and GURPS models balanced mechanisms for spending xp on resources.

I will also be thinking of moderate paths to progress buffs rather than just replace crew cards with different ones. For example, what does Possum look like at 3CP? 4CP?

Originally Posted by Sam Mitschke

Reducing the BP by 1 for the player with three crew is not enough to offset the imbalance, and reducing it by 2 is too much.

It is interesting to me that I rate 2 BP for the player with three crew as not event close to offsetting the imbalance!

[Sam Mitschke]

This should be a safe-ish place to bring up something that has been a truth for me since I started work on 6e. And to be clear, I know it's not possible to please everyone and it's very easy for something like this to sound petulant or defensive, but that's not at all how I feel. I happen to love the game AND it's totally cool if someone doesn't. The feedback for 6e — since well before release and ongoing today — has been so bi-polar within the Car Wars community that it's often difficult to formulate a response:

• I love it/I hate it
• it's too dumbed down/it's elegant and streamlined
• it's way too big/it's great that it's in Hot Wheels scale
• it's not granular enough/it has a lot of depth
...and many, many more

My closest understanding of this phenomenon comes from someone who once earnestly told us:

"I want a modern and quick-playing version of Car Wars that is exactly the same as my older version, with multi-phase movement, lookup tables, and all — don't leave anything out."

I'm certainly paraphrasing a bit, but not much. If YOU are this person, I gotta ask:

Rather than (depending on your particular mood about it) tirelessly/enthusiastically/angrily redesigning this version of the game back into the old version, why not just play the older version?

Could we have made any new version of Car Wars that realistically satisfies you AND the modern gaming audience we need in order to keep the line alive?

[Sam Mitschke]

@beetle496

It is interesting to me that I rate 2 BP for the player with three crew as not event close to offsetting the imbalance!

Not specifically 2BP as a flat value — I meant that paying double-CP is likely too expensive. My example just happened to use 1 and 2 CP.

[kjamma4]

Originally Posted by Sam Mitschke

This should be a safe-ish place to bring up something that has been a truth for me since I started work on 6e.

I hate to say it but I was in this camp prior to playing.

FWIW, I'm a convert and I'm not too proud to say I was wrong.

My previous games of Car Wars were well past the '80s but I've played three games of 6e and the last three games of previous editions were two in 2013 and one in 2016.

And, as you've stated, I do have the option to continue to play with previous versions.

Best of both worlds.

Thanks.

[Sam Mitschke]

@kjamma4
Thank you — pleasing legacy fans (who have good reasons to want very specific things) AND enticing new players (who have good reasons to NOT want to play the classic versions) was a monumental task that required a series of equally-monumental departures from the old ways. You mentioned in another thread that we did a decent job of maintaining the classic flavor, which I appreciate very much...because in more than a few places that flavor is the only thing linking the old and new.

[beetle496]

Originally Posted by Sam Mitschke

This should be a safe-ish place to bring up something that has been a truth for me since I started work on 6e…

As one of your legacy bi-polar fan-boi critics, what you write is all correct! I agree that the expectations and design objectives include criteria which are mutually contradictory. The CW reboot was in kind of an impossible position.

I want a modern and quick-playing version of Car Wars that is exactly the same as my older version, with multi-phase movement, lookup tables, and all — don't leave anything out.

That sums it up nicely!

I know you have won me over on everything in your bulleted list! Some of the choices (e.g., H0 v Matchbox) I have now gone 180° from where I was a year or two ago. Good job!

• Big beautiful games are more fun than smaller paper-oriented games.
• The play is fast, elegant, and stream lined. I love all the dice!
• There is plenty of depth. BP instead of Space/Weight/Cost is genius!

Even with mechanics I don’t yet love, I expect I will come around to embracing fully. I will probably keep staring at the cards until such time that the underlying algorithms start to make sense. It is plain that the balance is good, and plenty of range too, so it might only be the obfuscation that is nagging at me.

Rather than (depending on your particular mood about it) tirelessly/enthusiastically/angrily redesigning this version of the game back into the old version, why not just play the older version?

That is an easy and reasonable question, with easy and unreasonable answers: Because since then, I am older, fatter, tired, and have much less free time. I am looking for 6e to be a time machine. The 1st-4th editions stopped being fun. Also, 5e was killed in the crib, but it was probably only a little better than what came before.

Could we have made any new version of Car Wars that realistically satisfies you AND the modern gaming audience we need in order to keep the line alive?

We will see! It is pretty close to what is humanly possible, and I remain optimistic!

It still seems to me like a peculiar choice to have a miniatures-oriented game where the miniatures don’t really matter. If it made things more palatable to an accountant, I guess that is good enough.

[Sam Mitschke]

I am looking for 6e to be a time machine.

Man...that honesty is genuinely refreshing. Thank you. Unfortunately, I am but a lowly game designer and am therefore ill-equipped to solve this problem. You also gave a number of thoughtful and considered responses that I'm not going to pull-quote, but let me drop a global thank you here.

It still seems to me like a peculiar choice to have a miniatures-oriented game where the miniatures don’t really matter. If it made things more palatable to an accountant, I guess that is good enough.

This was a big sticking point internally, too, but the more we played, the desire for 1:1 representation on the minis became less important than the fun factor. It why we worked to make the equipment sculpts match the items on the cards, and it is directly addressed by the Vehicle Guide builds. You can choose to have your games require a 1:1 mini translation...but someone who prefers to use the Oscar Mayer Weinermobile — my vehicle of choice — can still be competitive and have fun with the game.