10-25-2021, 08:57 AM | #21 |
Join Date: May 2012
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Re: A closer look at Explosion Damage
If only one weapon is powerful, you have The One True Way To Play.
But if /every/ weapon is powerful, you don't have a game anymore - the first mover just wins. If every weapon is powerful, but has a reasonably easy to derive counter, you no longer have a tactical maneuvering contest, just a game of rock-paper-scissors played during the design phase. If every weapon /feels/ powerful, but they're actually well-balanced, people who notice this feel deceived - "This seems like it should work better -> Make it work better." I'm no longer certain I have a good understanding of what people actually want. |
10-25-2021, 11:09 AM | #22 | |
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Frederick, MD
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Re: A closer look at Explosion Damage
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10-25-2021, 12:18 PM | #23 | |
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The Central Network
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Re: A closer look at Explosion Damage
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10-26-2021, 03:45 PM | #24 | |
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Frederick, MD
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Re: A closer look at Explosion Damage
Numbering these:
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So that just leaves (4) which I think maybe is the main subject of this thread, and it might not be a problem either? VROOM, VROOM! PEW, PEW! |
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10-27-2021, 08:17 AM | #25 | ||
Join Date: Oct 2021
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Re: A closer look at Explosion Damage
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That all makes complete sense to me. I think I am mostly going for a "more interesting/fun" weapon effect rather than a "more powerful one". When you get the "underwhelming effect" on a one-shot weapon it just doesn't feel as much "cool/fun" in our playtests so far using the pre-built cars. Once people are playing their own cars in our groups, I think no one will take explosion one-shot weapons unless I make some tweaks to make them more compelling. At this point I am thinking of compelling, not as "more powerful" but instead as "more interesting". Changing up the battlefield. I love your reference point of "Vroom Vroom! Pew Pew!" That is the kind of game I want to play :D. With that goal in mind, for this house rule: 1. Does anybody see something about this that would be too powerful? 2. Does it violate the "vroom vroom pew pew" guideline? 3. Or is this still not interesting or compelling enough and needs something else? Quote:
Yes, 3 wrenches would cause a D3 skid. No tire damage, they didn't actually lose control so never had control they couldn't pay for, the severity of the skid was already rolled with the attack roll. For direct hits where it was unclear where it would go, in the one test I have had with this so far, I let the defender pay control equal to the skid to control it, or the attacker gets to choose. I hadn't thought of front and back hits pivoting the car that way, and it makes complete sense I will try that out. |
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10-30-2021, 02:04 PM | #26 |
Join Date: Oct 2021
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Re: A closer look at Explosion Damage
In some additional testing and feedback with 10 other players so far it seems the "explosions cause spinout" rule is fun and fast.
If anything, it might make explosion weapons less powerful since they are now missing that "take someone from 1 control to no speed defense dice". But it plays fast, feels intuitive, and creates a fun battle. Another way to think about it is that explosions cause a penalty down the road (metaphorically), similar to fire causing a problem next turn and tire damage causing problems later. From explosions, your car may be "out of position" and you have to make choices to deal with that during your next movement. Anybody else done testing with this? |
10-30-2021, 03:35 PM | #27 |
Join Date: May 2012
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Re: A closer look at Explosion Damage
I actually really like 1 wrench = 1 D of skid.
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11-01-2021, 06:30 AM | #28 | |
Warehouse 23
Join Date: Jul 2017
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Re: A closer look at Explosion Damage
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"As soon as a weapon can move a car during combat, collisions can occur during combat. This opens Pandora's Box. There are a LOT of questions that must be answered. Here are just a few: Do you roll yellow dice for the speed of the car that was pushed by the explosion? Or maybe you designate some fixed number of dice for collisions caused by explosions? When does the weapon damage resolve? Before or after the explosion moves the car? Before or after the collision is resolved? Can a skidding car push another car along, or is all of the collision damage ignored if the target car happens to be touching a heavy obstacle? If the answer to the above question is yes, how do you resolve pile-ups caused by explosions? Once you've figured all of this out, there's another problem: When an explosion can cause a collision, blast weapons are now the only weapon you should ever buy. The potential damage is astronomical. The Firecracker, for example, is a 1BP weapon that can cause an explosion AND deal up to 3 damage alongside the blast effect. Let's walk through a perfect storm, in which you shoot a car A, which is going speed 5, with your Firecracker: 1) A perfect roll: 3 hits and a wrench with the Firecracker, causing an explosion that pushes car A into car B. 2) This collision causes a control loss, putting both car A and car B out of control. 2) Using the current collision rules, you roll 5 yellow dice for car A's speed — another perfect roll, which results in 10 hits (five double-hit results). 3) Car A and car B each take 10 damage from the collision. 4) Car A cannot defend because it is out of control, so it also takes 3 damage from your Firecracker. 5) Your 1BP weapon just dealt 23 damage in a single shot (and it could be more, as I'm not accounting for attack bonuses from your cards). 6) You have a second shot, with yet another Firecracker, so you do it all again, hopefully pushing the car A/B cluster into car C. 7) Any surviving players are going to do the same thing with their own blast weapons, because that is the obvious best shot. All car builds are now predetermined. In small games, equip as many Firecrackers as you can afford. In large games, equip as many Linked Hammerheads as you can afford, and use any remaining BP for structure and Firecrackers. All maneuvering is focused on staying far apart and away from obstacles. We decided to go in a different direction. 🙂"
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Philip Villarreal Warehouse 23 Manager Steve Jackson Games |
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11-01-2021, 02:14 PM | #29 |
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Re: A closer look at Explosion Damage
Sounds like OG CW -- not only the massive direct-fire damage, but the followup damage when the target has to roll for control; I scored not-a-few kills that way.
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"Dale *who*?" 79er The Jeremy Clarkson Debate Course: 1) I'm Right. 2) You're Wrong. 3) The End. |
11-01-2021, 06:54 PM | #30 | |
Join Date: Oct 2021
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Re: A closer look at Explosion Damage
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for example, Blast movement just stops when it connects with something else? I have no interest in creating a super weapon that anyone must choose :D. |
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