Underscoring the inhuman minds of Uplifts, AIs and Bioroids

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by thrash

You're quibbling: if the possible differences can be expressed as Disadvantages (negative CP) or Advantages (positive CP), they can logically include Features (zero CP) as well. The point is that mental Disadvantages/Features/Advantages are how GURPS represents differences from default human behavior.

My point is that even if a racial template has a such-and-such list of Dis/Advantages, it does not follow that Dis/Advantages alone describe how such an individual's mind differs from that of a human. There are, of course, many Features that were not included in the template for reasons of saving space, or perhaps even not thinking it through. Finding such features that are sufficiently alien while yet clearly features is something I'm hoping for (among other things).

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

A truly alien creature might just have a boatload of mental features, perks, quirks, taboos, and nigh universal traits kind of like reverse taboos.

Perhaps, though I must say that PU2:Perks do seem like very human-oriented most of the time. There are exceptions, of course, and some are seemingly fitting for certain races (e.g. Patience of Job for trapping or ambush predators).

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

My point is that even if a racial template has a such-and-such list of Dis/Advantages, it does not follow that Dis/Advantages alone describe how such an individual's mind differs from that of a human. There are, of course, many Features that were not included in the template for reasons of saving space, or perhaps even not thinking it through. Finding such features that are sufficiently alien while yet clearly features is something I'm hoping for (among other things).

Maybe it's not about putting more traits on character sheets, but rather about extrapolating the psychological consequences of existing physiological or neuro-structural traits?

You yourself brings up the example of the entity who initially lived in computer memory form only, and therefore was not afraid of dying, since if its physical avatar (bioshell or whatever it's called) gets destroyed, it can trivially easily get a new one.

That's a perfect example. You look at its character sheet, and find the relevant alrady-there trait, Extra Life or Unkillable, or however you best simulate that in GURPS, and you extrapolate the consquences of that, reaching the conclusion you gave earlier: It'd unafraid of death, unable to understand it.

Can it be taken further, with this particular example? So that not only is the concept of it itself dying alien to it, it cannot understand the natural fear of dying that other biological lifeforms have?

A Human born with Eidetic Memory, thus able to effortlessly recall information from long ago, or to which he did not ascribe importance at the time (but which he nevertheless took in a sensory input) can easily come to see other Humans as having a mild form of alzheimer's syndrome. They keep forgetting things! They can never remember anything!! He's not seeing himself as superior, but instead see them as defective. That's another conclusion, extrapolated from what's already on the charater sheet (and not - necessarily - needing to be nailed down by adding a new mental disad to the character sheet).

THS Bio-Roids have short lifespans, replicant-style. How does that affect their world view? They also have no childhood, or very limited childhoods at best. How does that effect their world view?

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

THS Bio-Roids have short lifespans, replicant-style. How does that affect their world view? They also have no childhood, or very limited childhoods at best. How does that effect their world view?

Only a few models have short lifespans. Most live as long as humans or even longer (theoretically; no bioroid is 100 y.o. yet).

The no-childhood-as-humans-envision-it does play, and I included it in my roleplaying of Caine. In this sense, he actually sees humans as somewhat unlucky.

[Keiko]

Its a good point. Beings are going to perceive their native condition as the "norm" and balance everything against that, probably judging other lifeforms to be somewhat "defective" in many cases unless their condition is notably beneficial (such as not having Short Life Span).

Of course, that's a very human way of looking at it...

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by Keiko

Its a good point. Beings are going to perceive their native condition as the "norm" and balance everything against that, probably judging other lifeforms to be somewhat "defective" in many cases unless their condition is notably beneficial (such as not having Short Life Span).

Of course, that's a very human way of looking at it...

Warlike races not appreciating human's common reluctant killer, or atheist species not like humanity's prevalence for religion and magical thinking, or humans not liking a blustering race that uses mock intimidation instead of oblique social domination and "dishonest" etiquette.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

Warlike races not appreciating human's common reluctant killer, or atheist species not like humanity's prevalence for religion and magical thinking, or humans not liking a blustering race that uses mock intimidation instead of oblique social domination and "dishonest" etiquette.

Aggression differences and theism/atheism seems like things that have been done to death, and usually associated with heavy-handed portrayals of nonhumans.

However, lack of magical thinking, or a different kind of magical thinking seem like interesting ideas.

[Keiko]

As silly as it seemed on the surface, I always thought the Silver Age comics Skrulls inability to distinguish any pictorial representation from a photograph or visual recording depicted a very alien cognitive function.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Aggression differences and theism/atheism seems like things that have been done to death, and usually associated with heavy-handed portrayals of nonhumans.

However, lack of magical thinking, or a different kind of magical thinking seem like interesting ideas.

Eh, religion is just a formalized form of magical thinking. But we can make it more general and less inflammatory.
How do humans perceive the world uniquely? We see patterns when there aren't any, and believe our actions affect outward reality when there isn't a possible way for them to.
A species that only instinctively understands their actions to have effects on close range environments. And for thoughts to have zero impact on reality at all. The power of positive thinking is as silly to them as casting spells.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

How do humans perceive the world uniquely? We see patterns when there aren't any, and believe our actions affect outward reality when there isn't a possible way for them to.
A species that only instinctively understands their actions to have effects on close range environments. And for thoughts to have zero impact on reality at all. The power of positive thinking is as silly to them as casting spells.

Positive thinking has health-related applications, though. But a mind for which it has no effect seems totally appropriate.

Now I wonder what differences in approaches to patterns and cause-and-effect guesswork would count as Features, i.e. not be significantly better/worse than human ones.