Tech Level appropriate skills

[Rabek]

Assume I'm just using 4e core. Is there a guideline somewhere as to what skills are appropriate for what tech levels?

The sciences are mostly the problem here. When is it appropriate to introduce Anthropology, for example? Or any of the other sciences?

[acrosome]

Real sciences don't appear until TL5, though many are available at late TL4 as anachronistic skills. But the rules for anachronistic skills are from Low-Tech, not core, so just call it TL5. Before that it's just Naturalist and Esoteric Medicine, rather than Biology and Physician for many practical applications. But Expert Skill (Natural Philosophy) replaces most sciences for TL1-4, like Chemistry, Physics, etc.- read the description of it. I would assume that Anthropology and Archaeology and such are also TL5 skills and subsumed into Expert Skill (Natural Philosophy) before that. Meteorology skill also changes to Weather Sense skill at TL0-4.

Interesting one: Machinist/TL0 is stone knapping…

Surgery does exist down to TL1, I believe- there are special rules for the use of Surgery skill by people who lack Physician skill. Historically, there is no Physician or Physiology skill at TL1-4 unless you use the anachronistic TL4 skill rules. There is Pharmacy (Herbal) skill at low TLs, but Pharmacy (Synthetic) is a TL5 skill. Of course, you can always make a weird game world that breaks these rules, but I'm talking historical.

I'd say that Computer Operation is TL6- because though Babbage Engines were conceived in TL5 only one or two were made before TL6. Or, if you believe in the Antikythera Mechanism you might make it TL1… :)

[Rabek]

Thanks! All very, very helpful answers!

I wasn't sure if machinery, engineering, mechanic, etc counted for anything in earlier TLs. Does machinery work for anything other than stone knapping before TL5?

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Rabek

Thanks! All very, very helpful answers!

I wasn't sure if machinery, engineering, mechanic, etc counted for anything in earlier TLs. Does machinery work for anything other than stone knapping before TL5?

Clockwork devices, catapults, ship's steering wheels, mill wheels...

[Phantasm]

Accounting and Finance - TL 1 (ancient Sumer had them)
Administration - TL 1 (possibly TL 0). Someone had to organize the work camps to build the Pyramids, after all.
Alchemy - realistic uses are TL 2, becomes Chemistry by TL 5
Anthropology - there is some evidence of this at TL 2, being the study of other cultures
Archeology - TL 6 historically, though there's nothing preventing it from appearing at TL 4 or earlier
Architecture - TL 1
Armoury - TL 0 for Body Armor, Melee Weapons, and Missile Weapons, TL 3 for Small Arms; not sure about Vehicular Armor, but maybe TL 1, TL 5 at the latest (for the Monitor and the Merrimac in the US Civil War)
Astronomy - the Observational optional specialty is available at TL 0. While modern astronomy is assumed to start at TL 4, TL 2 astronomers were reaching many of the same conclusions.
Biology - TL 5 is considered the start of studying it as a distinct science, I believe; prior to that, it's rolled into Expert Skill (Natural Philosophy).
Brainwashing - I'd believe this as far back as TL 1.
Cartography - I can see this at TL 1, though uncommon before TL 2.
Chemistry - TL 5, before that rolled into realistic Alchemy. Many alchemical pursuits paved the way for modern chemistry.
Computer Hacking/Programming/Operation - I wouldn't use these prior to TL 7 in a realistic game; TL 5 or 6 for the Babbage engine. The first official computer was built in 1941, at the start of TL 7, although the "mother of computer programming", Ada Lovelace, wrote her notes in the 1840s. I'd use the Anachronistic Skill Perk at TL 5-6.
Criminology - I don't believe this becomes its own study until TL 5, although it's certainly usable in urban environments down to TL 0.
Cryptography - TL 1. The ancient Sumerians, Egyptians, and Chinese used this in the Bronze Age.
Diagnosis - TL 0.
Economics - TL 1, but uncommon outside the ruling elite until TL 5.
Electrician - TL 6 for widespread use. Harnessing electricity prior to that was difficult at best. (Ben Franklin's famous "key on a kite in a thunderstorm" experiment was likely actually performed by a servant, with him observing.)
Electronics Operation/Repair - TL 7 is when this comes into its own; TL 6 for experimental devices.
Engineer - Artillery at TL 2; Civil, Combat, Mining, and Vehicles at TL 1; Clockwork and Small Arms at TL 3 or 4; Electrical at TL 6; Electronics at TL 7; Microtechnology at TL 8 at the earliest (possibly with Anachronistic Skill). The others are either future technologies or superscience.

more to come

[nick012000]

Originally Posted by tbrock1031

Armoury - TL 0 for Body Armor, Melee Weapons, and Missile Weapons, TL 3 for Small Arms; not sure about Vehicular Armor, but maybe TL 1, TL 5 at the latest (for the Monitor and the Merrimac in the US Civil War)

I'd say Vehicular Armor would show up at TL 1-2, at least, because of things like chariots.

[Phantasm]

Forensics - TL 6.
Geology - TL 5; prior to that, rolled into Expert Skill (Natural Philosophy).
Hazardous Materials - Chemical would be apparent at TL 2, but Biological and Nuclear weren't common until TL 7, I believe; Nuclear would be Anachronistic at TL 6 (Marie Curie lost her hands to cancer and radiation poisoning from handling Radium with no protection).
Intelligence Analysis - TL 1 is when it comes into its own, during the wars between Bronze Age peoples, though it's possibly around during TL 0.
Jeweler - TL 1, though IIRC faceting of gems wasn't available until TL 4.
Law - Known by TL 1, possibly available at TL 0.
Leatherworking - TL 0
Linguistics - Not really sure when this came about, but I wouldn't use it prior to TL 5 in most historical campaigns.
Machinist and Mechanic - TL 0.
Mathematics - Applied and Surveying at TL 1, Pure at TL 2, Computer Science at TL 6 (5 w/ Anachronistic Skill); not sure about Cryptology or Statistics, but my gut tells me TL 5-6.
Metallurgy - TL 1 for practical aspects, though I don't think it comes into its own as a full-fledged scientific study until much later.
Meteorology and Weather Sense - TL 5+ for the scientific study of weather, TL 0 for being able to look at the sky and judge how things would change in the next day or two.
Paleontology - TL 6 at earliest in historical games as its own study.
Parachuting - TL 6 is when it was invented, though in non-historical fantasy settings it may come earlier. ("We're the Air Force. We don't jump out of perfectly good airplanes.")
Pharmacy - the book describes this; TL 5 for Synthetic, TL 0 for Herbal
Physics - Prior to and even during TL 4, considered part of Expert Skill (Natural Philosophy). Came into its own in TL 5, but can be Anachronistic in TL 4.
Physiology - Aristotle and DaVinci both worked to develop this; the former as part of Expert Skill (Natural Philosophy) at TL 2, the latter at TL 4 from an engineering standpoint, studying the body as he would a machine. Not really sure if that qualifies it to be a TL 4 skill or not; TL 5+ for certain.

More later

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by tbrock1031

Electronics Operation/Repair - TL 7 is when this comes into its own; TL 6 for experimental devices.

More than experimental devices: ships routinely had radio transmitters and receivers before WWI. Military air-to-ground radio was reasonably routine in 1918 at mid TL6 and thoroughly standard by the mid 1930s.

[Figleaf23]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

Clockwork devices, catapults, ship's steering wheels, mill wheels...

I regard TL4 ship's rigging as the subject of a Mechanic specialization as well.

[Polydamas]

Originally Posted by acrosome

Real sciences don't appear until TL5, though many are available at late TL4 as anachronistic skills. But the rules for anachronistic skills are from Low-Tech, not core, so just call it TL5. Before that it's just Naturalist and Esoteric Medicine, rather than Biology and Physician for many practical applications.

They definitely had Physics and Astronomy at late TL 4. Psychology is universal (it is the definitive 'understanding people' skill) but Pscyhology (Experimental) is 20th century.

In many ways, allowing low-TL Physician for reasonably empirical traditions would solve more problems than it creates.