Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > The Fantasy Trip

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-25-2020, 10:32 AM   #21
TippetsTX
 
TippetsTX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: North Texas
Default Re: Resolving problem with pentagrams and wish contest of wills

Quote:
Originally Posted by zot View Post
How would that work, since demons don't have any ranged attacks and the wizard could run away?

Would the demon get to teleport out of the pentagram but only attack the wizard and have to be careful not to accidentally break anything or hurt anyone else?
I really don't think a demon needs to physically touch the wizard to destroy them (although most would probably prefer a more 'hands on' approach if they have the option). They do have the ability to alter reality, after all.

TBH, I think the implied mental invitation would provide sufficient access to the wizard which I think is what warhorse11h is getting at.
__________________
“No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style.” -Vladimir Taltos
TippetsTX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2020, 11:35 AM   #22
oldwolf
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Default Re: Resolving problem with pentagrams and wish contest of wills

Demon summonings should be roleplayed.

Well I remember a player, safely in a pentagram, summoning a demon.

I had the demon appear, wearing a spell of invisibility, just outside the pentagram. The demon then tiptoed over to the door of the room and knocked, while calling out "I am here o master, open the door that I may enter and serve thee."

Yes, the player character walked over to open the door.
oldwolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2020, 12:16 PM   #23
TippetsTX
 
TippetsTX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: North Texas
Default Re: Resolving problem with pentagrams and wish contest of wills

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldwolf View Post
Demon summonings should be roleplayed.

Well I remember a player, safely in a pentagram, summoning a demon.

I had the demon appear, wearing a spell of invisibility, just outside the pentagram. The demon then tiptoed over to the door of the room and knocked, while calling out "I am here o master, open the door that I may enter and serve thee."

Yes, the player character walked over to open the door.
Now that sounds like an IQ challenge to me.
__________________
“No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style.” -Vladimir Taltos
TippetsTX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2020, 12:29 PM   #24
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Re: Resolving problem with pentagrams and wish contest of wills

Quote:
Originally Posted by TippetsTX View Post
I really don't think a demon needs to physically touch the wizard to destroy them (although most would probably prefer a more 'hands on' approach if they have the option). They do have the ability to alter reality, after all.

TBH, I think the implied mental invitation would provide sufficient access to the wizard which I think is what warhorse11h is getting at.
Sure, this could be a house rule but there's nothing in the current rules to imply that sort of capability. The rules don't allow for demons to use their own wishes or any magical powers at all, for that matter, other than teleport.

I've always been a little disappointed at how relatively powerless demons are when it seems like they should have infinite variety and all kinds of weird powers.
zot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2020, 03:03 PM   #25
oldwolf
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Default Re: Resolving problem with pentagrams and wish contest of wills

Another thought, since it is a contest of wills, one might consider that it is a mental contest of the wizard trying to compel the demon to do his bidding and vice versa. If the demon wins, the wizard is forced to break the pentagram. The demon can then politely request the wizards autograph or rip his head off as he sees fit.
oldwolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2020, 04:46 PM   #26
warhorse11h
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Re: Resolving problem with pentagrams and wish contest of wills

Quote:
Originally Posted by TippetsTX View Post
I really don't think a demon needs to physically touch the wizard to destroy them (although most would probably prefer a more 'hands on' approach if they have the option). They do have the ability to alter reality, after all.

TBH, I think the implied mental invitation would provide sufficient access to the wizard which I think is what warhorse11h is getting at.
Thanks, Tippets TX, that is what I was getting at, but a different thought has struck. ITL LE pg 80 says that a demon may not enter or leave a pentagram or attack across the border of a pentagram. But that leaves what seems to be a valid question. Does a teleporting being pass through barriers or simply disappear from one place and reappear in another? If so, can the demon escape to attack the wizard by teleporting out of the pentagram. Also, a pentagram cannot stop a physical attack from a non-magical creature. So, if the demon materializes outside of the pentagram and picks up the party's barbarian and throws him at the wizard standing in the middle of the pentagram, does the barbarian hit the wizard and knock him out of the pentagram, or does he stop when he hits the pentagram?

Last edited by warhorse11h; 03-25-2020 at 04:52 PM.
warhorse11h is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2020, 05:01 PM   #27
TippetsTX
 
TippetsTX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: North Texas
Default Re: Resolving problem with pentagrams and wish contest of wills

You had me at "picks up the party's barbarian". ;)
__________________
“No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style.” -Vladimir Taltos
TippetsTX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2020, 12:53 AM   #28
Steve Plambeck
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Default Re: Resolving problem with pentagrams and wish contest of wills

I'm thinking the wizard must not like his friends very much if he summons the demon outside the pentagram without inviting those friends to step inside with him first.

"Hey guys, you stand over there while I get inside this circle here -- now wait 'til you see what I'm bringing you!"
__________________
"I'm not arguing. I'm just explaining why I'm right."
Steve Plambeck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2020, 01:02 AM   #29
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: Resolving problem with pentagrams and wish contest of wills

Quote:
Originally Posted by warhorse11h View Post
ITL LE pg 80 says that a demon may not enter or leave a pentagram or attack across the border of a pentagram. But that leaves what seems to be a valid question. Does a teleporting being pass through barriers or simply disappear from one place and reappear in another? If so, can the demon escape to attack the wizard by teleporting out of the pentagram.
No. Teleporting is the standard way demons move. So there would be no reason for the rules to mention wizards using pentagrams when summoning demons if they were near-zero obstacle to them. Therefore, clearly pentagrams block teleportation across them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by warhorse11h View Post
Also, a pentagram cannot stop a physical attack from a non-magical creature. So, if the demon materializes outside of the pentagram and picks up the party's barbarian and throws him at the wizard standing in the middle of the pentagram, does the barbarian hit the wizard and knock him out of the pentagram, or does he stop when he hits the pentagram?
Yes. That's why the standard approach mentioned is to summon a demon inside a pentagram. Of course, one might also assume a pentagram blocks a wizard from summoning across it, unless the wizard himself is inside the pentagram too. If it also blocked the contest of wills, and especially if the contest of will involved having to be adjacent to the demon, that would help a bit, but still a 4d attack is vastly more survivable (especially with the Legacy dying rules) than the original result of being immediately killed.
Skarg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2020, 05:46 AM   #30
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Re: Resolving problem with pentagrams and wish contest of wills

Quote:
Originally Posted by warhorse11h View Post
Thanks, Tippets TX, that is what I was getting at, but a different thought has struck. ITL LE pg 80 says that a demon may not enter or leave a pentagram or attack across the border of a pentagram. But that leaves what seems to be a valid question. Does a teleporting being pass through barriers or simply disappear from one place and reappear in another? If so, can the demon escape to attack the wizard by teleporting out of the pentagram. Also, a pentagram cannot stop a physical attack from a non-magical creature. So, if the demon materializes outside of the pentagram and picks up the party's barbarian and throws him at the wizard standing in the middle of the pentagram, does the barbarian hit the wizard and knock him out of the pentagram, or does he stop when he hits the pentagram?
For teleporting, I think the key point in the rules is that a demon cannot leave a pentagram. Doesn't matter how it tries to do it.

The rules do say a demon can use weapons so if there were any ranged weapons (like rocks), it could use them to attack across the pentagram since they're nonmagical.
zot is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:26 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.