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Old 10-02-2020, 06:23 PM   #1
Christopher R. Rice
 
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Default Reversing Dice + Adds for Per Die Bonuses

I'm running a cinematic wuxia fantasy campaign right now and I'm considering allowing per die bonuses to be transformed into flat bonuses (e.g., +2/die becomes +4 damage). The +2 to +1/die is a standard GURPS convention, but is reversing it breaking anything? I don't *think* so but I'd like some opinions and if you've done it how did it work?
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Old 10-02-2020, 07:55 PM   #2
VIVIT
 
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Default Re: Reversing Dice + Adds for Per Die Bonuses

AFAIK, the "+1 per die or flat +2" rule actually only applies only to AOA (Strong). Other cases of the "+n per die" idiom, such as damage bonuses from relative skill levels, don't offer that option. This suggests to me that "a flat +2 if that would be better" is there because a mere +1 basic damage bonus is a little too weaksauce to be worth giving up all active defenses for an entire turn.

Generalizing the flat +2 option to all cases of "+1 per die" seems like it wouldn't be that much of an issue, but a flat +4? I'm not so sure. The average result of 1d+4 (7.5) is more than double that of 1d (3.5). Observe that, if you applied Modifying Dice+Adds (B269, boxed text), such a bonus would add an entire die!

Last edited by VIVIT; 10-02-2020 at 08:04 PM.
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Old 10-02-2020, 08:04 PM   #3
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Default Re: Reversing Dice + Adds for Per Die Bonuses

Given the cinematic wuxia setting, an assumed 2 dice seems reasonable. I don't see why this would break anything.
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Old 10-02-2020, 08:16 PM   #4
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Default Re: Reversing Dice + Adds for Per Die Bonuses

If everybody has at least 2 dice, then why do we need the flat +2n option at all? The only time you would have reason to take the flat bonus instead of the per-die one is if you only have a single die.
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Old 10-02-2020, 08:36 PM   #5
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Default Re: Reversing Dice + Adds for Per Die Bonuses

Because thrust attacks, which are pretty much all unarmed attacks are thrust, and for most levels of ST with be at 1d. So having +4 is superior there to +2 per die for a cinematic wuxia game where Kung fu is strong.
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Old 10-02-2020, 09:14 PM   #6
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Default Re: Reversing Dice + Adds for Per Die Bonuses

My preferred solution is to allow player choice between +2/die or skill / 5 flat

Making it just flat +4 seems really punitive to King Kong or a Sky Giant when he learns Karate
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Old 10-02-2020, 09:24 PM   #7
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Default Re: Reversing Dice + Adds for Per Die Bonuses

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imbicatus View Post
Because thrust attacks, which are pretty much all unarmed attacks are thrust, and for most levels of ST with be at 1d. So having +4 is superior there to +2 per die for a cinematic wuxia game where Kung fu is strong.
Ah. Yes, allowing a higher flat alternative for characters with only one die makes sense as a buff to martial arts in a cinematic game where martial arts is powerful. This particularly makes sense because cinematic martial arts often assumes that training can grant you combat prowess beyond the limits of your physical body. This is already represented in the system with cinematic skills like Power Blow, but you could build it right into the martial arts skill by allowing better flat bonuses for single-die damage rolls.

Maybe this could be added as an additional benefit to TBaM?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalzazz View Post
My preferred solution is to allow player choice between +2/die or skill / 5 flat

Making it just flat +4 seems really punitive to King Kong or a Sky Giant when he learns Karate
That's how it works as per RAW's AOA (Strong). You take whichever bonus is better.

EDIT: Ah, wait, skill / 5? Interesting! That's 3e-ism, isn't it? Do note however that this makes damage partially dependent on DX. 4e damage bonuses from skill are based on relative level, not absolute level. DX+1 grants +1 per die, DX+2 grants +2, and then it stops improving because +3 or +4 per die is getting pretty ridiculous.

Last edited by VIVIT; 10-02-2020 at 09:33 PM.
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Old 10-03-2020, 09:18 AM   #8
Kalzazz
 
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Default Re: Reversing Dice + Adds for Per Die Bonuses

Yeah it's a 3e ism

My goal in using it is to make the noodle armed high skill guy who stabs people more viable

I don't mind it rewarding DX, I like high attributes.
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Old 10-03-2020, 12:20 PM   #9
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Default Re: Reversing Dice + Adds for Per Die Bonuses

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imbicatus View Post
Because thrust attacks, which are pretty much all unarmed attacks are thrust, and for most levels of ST with be at 1d. So having +4 is superior there to +2 per die for a cinematic wuxia game where Kung fu is strong.
Doesn't do much to help the 2d thrust kung fuers though.

Since it takes 2 ST to get a +1 and 10 ST to get a +1d, I just view +1 as +20% and +2 as +40%. This way it'd scale up uniformly for all damage.

If you don't have a calculator a fixed add is easier, though you could just roll damage and call that "+1 per 5 rolled" or "+2 per 5 rolled"

I think the reason 1d gets the better bonuses than 2d or beyond is because it could so often result in 0 so it's a way to avoid 0s.

If the intent is to make committed/AOA strong more cinematic than you could double the output to 40% and 80% boost to striking ST.

AOA strong has the same effect as Mighty Blows which is 1 FP worth of Extra Effort. EE in Combat is simpler (fixed adds) than the usual approach (choose a desired %, roll will at penalty based at %) but that's another way (just use the variable results not the fixed ones) you could represent a cinematic spectrum: do the will rolls not just for % increase to Lifting ST but % increase to Striking ST too.
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Old 10-03-2020, 12:33 PM   #10
Anders
 
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Default Re: Reversing Dice + Adds for Per Die Bonuses

Honestly, in a fantasy wuxia campaign you've already thrown reality out the window. I would let characters with Trained by a Master use swing damage for their martial arts attacks. Maybe as a +50% enhancement to TBaM.
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