[High-tech]Armoury equipment

[Donny Brook]

Would the the 'basic equipment' for Armoury (Firearms) include a hand-loading press?

[johndallman]

I doubt a Portable Tool Kit for Armoury (Small Arms) does, but a Workshop for the skill may well do. See High-Tech, p. 24.

Note that it will depend a bit on who set up the workshop; an army is unlikely to bother with a reloading press in every base's workshop, since they tend to want their troops to use standardised ammunition and not tinker with it. An R&D establishment will certainly have presses.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Donny Brook

Would the the 'basic equipment' for Armoury (Firearms) include a hand-loading press?

I believe that's a "No," otherwise GURPS High Tech likely would have said as much, and I certainly don't recall any mention of the sort (indeed, I believe there are some hand-loading presses available separately as gear in that book).

EDIT: If you're instead coming from this from the standpoint of "Do I need a hand-loading press to be able to use Armoury (Firearms) without the penalty for lacking basic equipment?" rather than "Does my basic equipment come with a hand-loading press?", consider that Armoury is the skill of making, maintaining, repairing, and modifying the base weapon. Being able to hand-load bullets wouldn't be necessary for any of that, anymore than a bowyer would need to have fletching equipment to be able to do work on bows (historically, bowyer and fletcher were different professions, and I believe in GURPS use different specializations of Armoury - Missile Weapons vs Projectiles).

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by Varyon

EDIT: If you're instead coming from this from the standpoint of "Do I need a hand-loading press to be able to use Armoury (Firearms) without the penalty for lacking basic equipment?" rather than "Does my basic equipment come with a hand-loading press?", consider that Armoury is the skill of making, maintaining, repairing, and modifying the base weapon.

I'm pretty sure Armoury [small arms] covers both weapons and ammunition, but still no. You don't actually need a reloading press to load cartridges (there are hand presses, and it can be done with a hammer and die, just not very quickly or reliably). Nor is it a core component of the skill anyway. You don't generally do repair work on ammunition - it's too cheap to be worth the effort - and that's largely what a basic tool kit for any skill will be focused on. If you are doing production jobs, you will want more, and more specialized, gear fairly soon.

That said, the $100 TL5 version is not exactly a huge extra expense vs the $1200 basic tool kit. It's certainly possible some packages might include one. The contents of real world "basic" kits do vary from manufacturer to manufacturer and user to user.

Edi: On the flipside, if the reason you need it is to manufacture a handful of silver bullets or something similar, yes the basic kit will do it. It may or may not have an actual press in it, but it will have something you can use or adapt for the job well enough to turn out a few weird specialty rounds for tomorrow.

[Fred Brackin]

You need to specify a TL (if not a year) for Armoury(Firearms). You didn't even see reloadable cartiridges until the late 1860s in our timeline.

[Donny Brook]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

You need to specify a TL (if not a year) for Armoury(Firearms). You didn't even see reloadable cartiridges until the late 1860s in our timeline.

Ah yes, I mean TL8.

[fredtheobviouspseudonym]

Originally Posted by Varyon

I believe that's a "No," otherwise GURPS High Tech likely would have said as much, and I certainly don't recall any mention of the sort (indeed, I believe there are some hand-loading presses available separately as gear in that book).

EDIT: If you're instead coming from this from the standpoint of "Do I need a hand-loading press to be able to use Armoury (Firearms) without the penalty for lacking basic equipment?" rather than "Does my basic equipment come with a hand-loading press?", consider that Armoury is the skill of making, maintaining, repairing, and modifying the base weapon. Being able to hand-load bullets wouldn't be necessary for any of that, anymore than a bowyer would need to have fletching equipment to be able to do work on bows (historically, bowyer and fletcher were different professions, and I believe in GURPS use different specializations of Armoury - Missile Weapons vs Projectiles).

So called "nutcracker" loading devices have been around since the 1870s. They're still being made today. You basically get a clamp for sizing the cases, a powder measure, and one die for case forming.



"LEE PRECISION 90258 Classic Loader.357 Magnum
4.7 out of 5 stars 206
$43.33" on Amazon.

So you can throw one of those in a fairly small case or pack and can reload in the field (sort of. You'll also need primers, gunpowder, bullets, etc.)

[sir_pudding]

No, military and police (operators of the majority of armories) don't typically load their own cartridges. They do often send brass to manufacture for recycling.

[Polkageist]

Originally Posted by fredtheobviouspseudonym

So called "nutcracker" loading devices have been around since the 1870s. They're still being made today. You basically get a clamp for sizing the cases, a powder measure, and one die for case forming.



"LEE PRECISION 90258 Classic Loader.357 Magnum
4.7 out of 5 stars 206
$43.33" on Amazon.

So you can throw one of those in a fairly small case or pack and can reload in the field (sort of. You'll also need primers, gunpowder, bullets, etc.)

I figured that something small like that would exist!
I think depending on the location on the cinematic to gritty spectrum the game is, 'basic equipment' is loose enough to say that it includes one of those kits by back-justifying its presence by the PC knowing that they'll want to reload some ammo and tossed it in there.
A basic kit after all isn't just one box you buy at GunMart, but the collection of basic tools including the ancillary general purpose ones like screwdrivers and your favorite brand of cleaner and such. Having the armory skill means you know what would go into a kit and have been taught how to put together your own. They'll all look generally the same, even though everyone's a little bit different (favorite brands, 'one easy trick' tools), but you could pick up a stranger's kit and get the job done.

Gritty vs. Cinematic I think also would be important to know in order to gauge the capabilities of a basic kit. Take for example, a game where the PC's are out in a place with no or limited resupply. The ammo for the Big Gun is running low, and the gun bunny of the group wants to reload some of the cartridges to stretch the supply.
In a cinematic game, I would without hesitation say yes. It's a clever idea, keeps the game going, and gives an interesting roll to see not whether or not they reload some ammo but how much they reload in order to keep the Big Gun shooting. Basic kit = I can do clever stuff, and cinematic games are all about "ah, but luckily I DID think of that!".

In a gritty game, it'd be the opposite where unless specifically stated at the outset that they're bringing along supplies to reload Big Gun caliber cartridges then it's going to be hard to impossible to do so in the field. It's a little gotcha-y, but a gritty game is more about forethought and planning and dealing with challenging situations with more consideration. Maybe there's something nearby where they could scrounge up the needed supplies, or maybe they're in a forest and SoL. That basic kit is simply about maintaining the current state of the weapon, not recovering catastrophic damage or generating supplies out of thin air. IF the kit did carry reloading supplies, then it'd be tracked like other supplies in that you have X reloads available and the PC would probably have done some math to determine that the weight/space of carrying reloading supplies is more efficient than simply carrying more gun food.