RPM Tattoos and 'Wands' questions

[qchap]

Hello! I have some questions about how exactly the Tattoo (from Pyramid 3-56) and 'Wand' (from Pyramid 3-66 Charm 'R' Us) conditional spells options work. And I also have some concern about the Tattoo balance.

I really liked the 'Wand' idea for one charm with multiple copies of a spell - it doesn't break anything, because without this option I could just have multiple charms, but it makes things more comfortable and adds the 'wands' flavor.
The only queation I have is that it's not clear for me from the text, wether I can have a number of 'wands', equal to my spell slots number, each having up to my spell slots number copies of a spell, or I can have TOTAL prepared spells up to my spell slots number? E.g. I have 20 spell slots, could I have 20 different 'wands' with up to 20 copies of a spell in each? Or could I have, like, only two wands with 10 copies of a spell in each (or 5 in one and 15 in other, for example)?
I think it must be the latter (and for the next questions I'll assume it is), but the text confused me, saying the 'wand' counts as only one charm. What does it mean? Just that it is one object?
And one more little question about the option: why it is called "Charms 'R' Us"? Maybe there is some wordplay which I don't understand as non-native speaker?

Now about tattoos:
How do I make a tattoo charm? The text doesn't say anything about it, so I assume I just spend 30 minutes and cast a spell, no additional rolls, as an ordinary charm.
Is charm workspace needed? Or is it another type of workspace, as for elixirs? Again, nothing stated, so I assume I can just use an ordinary workspace (of course I must have something to make the tattoo with).
The text says that drawn tattoos disappear after use, inked tattoos fade after use, and what about scarring?
There stated, that you can reuse a tattoo to have a 10% discount. Does making the same drawn tattoo counts as reusing?
The text says, that I could have up to ST tattoo charms, but charms with the same spell can occupy one space. So, if I have ST 10, I could have up to 10 different tattoo charms, and more if some are the same, right?

Now, about my balance concern:
The ordinary 'hang' conditional spells are limiting me significantly in that I can have only spells with different path effects hang on me. And the trigger could not be activated by thought or intention (except, maybe, when I add Sense Mind effect for it). I assume it as a starting point of the balance.
The ordinary charms then allow me to have multiple spells with the same effects in different objects, allowing me to bypass the limitation, but with many costs: it could be stolen (the other side - it could be lended), I have to carry around lots of objects and Quick Draw or even Ready them, I have to spend 30 minutes for each spell, I must have a workspace (the other side - good workspace gives a bonus). These are sizable drawbacks, so I think it's well-balanced.
The elixirs are somewhat easier to prepare then charms (with cheaper folmularies and Alchemistry being usable for any spell), but harder to use in combat, so it evens out too.
The 'wands' help bypass the same limitation of multiple identical spells, but makes it better then charms - no need to carry around a lot of objects and no need to Quick Draw every spell, so it's more combat usable. The drawback is much longer creation time and the creation roll (I assume that if you fail it, you would have to start over again). Now, I think it's a little small drawback for a really good advantage, but nothing not acceptable. To be honest, I think it would be a fair balance starting point to begin with. It still could be stolen or broken (and then the owner would lose several spells at a time).

And now the tattoos. As I read the text - it's as easy to create as an ordinary charm, but it solves the same problem as a 'wand', AND solves another problem, allowing to trigger spells mentally (so, tiying up and gagging the caster wouldn't help). It even offers some discount.
The only drawbacks I can think of is that it couldn't be lent (but couldn't be broken or stolen either, so it evens out) and, well, it's a tattoo, so it's visible (but you could cover it with clothes).
So, it makes tattoos the best conditional spells option, which all casters would prioritize, using other options only in special cases.
The ST limitation is not really a drawback - any caster would try to stuff their tattoos up to the limitation, and only if it's not enough, they'll use some other options.

Am I not reading it right or am I missing something?

And one more small thing: I have a similar concern about the Herb Lore option for elixirs. It's the same as Alchemy in all ways except it has an easier way to obtain components, making it strictly better. Is it right?

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by qchap

The only queation I have is that it's not clear for me from the text, whether I can have a number of 'wands', equal to my spell slots number, each having up to my spell slots number copies of a spell, or I can have TOTAL prepared spells up to my spell slots number? E.g. I have 20 spell slots, could I have 20 different 'wands' with up to 20 copies of a spell in each? Or could I have, like, only two wands with 10 copies of a spell in each (or 5 in one and 15 in other, for example)?

You can have up to your normal number of charms but this option lets one or more of those charms be "stacked" charms of the same spell. Think of it like a magazine clip. So if you have 20 slots you could have up to 20 different items, each with up to 20 instances or shots of a single spell.

Charms r Us is I think a spin on Toys r Us. Its just a joke far as I know.

Originally Posted by qchap

Now about tattoos:
How do I make a tattoo charm? The text doesn't say anything about it, so I assume I just spend 30 minutes and cast a spell, no additional rolls, as an ordinary charm.
Is charm workspace needed? Or is it another type of workspace, as for elixirs? Again, nothing stated, so I assume I can just use an ordinary workspace (of course I must have something to make the tattoo with).
The text says that drawn tattoos disappear after use, inked tattoos fade after use, and what about scarring?
There stated, that you can reuse a tattoo to have a 10% discount. Does making the same drawn tattoo counts as reusing?
The text says, that I could have up to ST tattoo charms, but charms with the same spell can occupy one space. So, if I have ST 10, I could have up to 10 different tattoo charms, and more if some are the same, right?

This appears to be an oversight by the author or maybe the text was edited for space.
In another Pyramid he had rules for it, not finding it at the moment but I just woke up so my eyes are blurry. Use a normal workspace but each charm costs money for the ink and tattoos. It would likely be different for prehistory than modern day anyhow. I think it was $5k per tattoo.
I like the idea of stacked tattoos! This would not change the space requirements, but each tattoo could have up to the full number of castings as in the answer to your first question.
I would tend to say only permanent tattoos count as reusable
I think inked tattoos fade but are still present (and can be retraced for reuse).

Stacked charms are indeed powerful but a nod to combat where they really help a mage out. I used them in two different campaigns, my limit is typically one days casting for each stack.
My GM (the author) uses a l9ot of house rules though as he tries out different things.

Tattoos have a big drawback in needing Artist (Body Art), Professional Skill (Tattoo Artist) or something and the time & cost to make the tatoo in addition to casting requirements. Also they are often required to be visible to use, though that may be a house rule or carry over from the other article or GURPS Thaumatology.

Herb Lore is generally cheaper but less flexible than Alchemy in most systems and settings, meaning fewer types of spells that can be made with it.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by qchap

The only queation I have is that it's not clear for me from the text, wether I can have a number of 'wands', equal to my spell slots number, each having up to my spell slots number copies of a spell, or I can have TOTAL prepared spells up to my spell slots number? E.g. I have 20 spell slots, could I have 20 different 'wands' with up to 20 copies of a spell in each? Or could I have, like, only two wands with 10 copies of a spell in each (or 5 in one and 15 in other, for example)?

As Refplace notes, it's the former. If you feel this is unbalanced, you could instead have rituals stored in a Wand simply count as fewer Conditional Rituals. Say, each additional ritual in a Wand beyond the first counts as 0.5 - so with 20 spell slots, you could have one Wand with 39 instances of the same ritual stored in it (the first instance uses 1 slot, the rest use up 0.5, so 1+(0.5*38)=20), two Wands that each have 19 instances of their rituals, three Wands that each have 12 instances of their rituals (which leaves you with an "extra" 0.5, so one Wand could instead have 13), etc.

As Refplace also notes, Charms R Us is almost certainly a reference to Toys R Us, a rather famous toystore chain here in the USA.

Originally Posted by qchap

Is charm workspace needed? Or is it another type of workspace, as for elixirs? Again, nothing stated, so I assume I can just use an ordinary workspace (of course I must have something to make the tattoo with).

I'd be inclined to have a different workspace, although there'd be overlap. Have it be the same weight and cost as a normal workspace, but include basic materials for doing the tattooing (a more advanced tattoo gun is going to cost more). Using a normal workspace to do the tattooing, or a tattooing workspace to make normal Charms/Wands, would probably be a -1 or so to skill. If you want a workspace that can do both, it's 1.5x weight and cost compared to a normal one.

Again, that's just my inclination - the intent may well be that a normal charm workspace works just fine.

Originally Posted by qchap

The text says that drawn tattoos disappear after use, inked tattoos fade after use, and what about scarring?
There stated, that you can reuse a tattoo to have a 10% discount. Does making the same drawn tattoo counts as reusing?

Scars are probably less pronounced once you've used the associated ritual(s) (natural scars typically fade over time), but if you renew what's stored in it, it will be more clear, as though it were a much fresher scar (and I'd treat tattoos similarly - they fade as though old when "empty," but get brighter and look fresher when "charged"). I wouldn't allow a drawn tattoo to benefit from the recharging discount - the point of drawing instead of scarring/tattooing is so that you aren't permanently modifying your body, so you don't get the discount.

Which naturally brings us to discussing that discount. Tattooing or scarring yourself basically "locks in" that particular slot (of which you have a number equal to ST) for a ritual with that Specific Definition. Removing the tattoo/scar to free it back up should be difficult; I'd be inclined to say it's Lesser Restore Body (to remove the tattoo/scar) + Greater Destroy Magic (to remove the Charm), with a Metamagic surcharge equal to (after adjusting for tripling for 1 Greater Effect) the cost of the original ritual. That is, you need to gather as much energy as it took to initially create the Charm, then add another 30 energy on top (assuming I'm remembering correctly and Restore and Destroy cost 5 each).

[qchap]

Originally Posted by Refplace

In another Pyramid he had rules for it, not finding it at the moment but I just woke up so my eyes are blurry. Use a normal workspace but each charm costs money for the ink and tattoos. It would likely be different for prehistory than modern day anyhow. I think it was $5k per tattoo.

Originally Posted by Refplace

Tattoos have a big drawback in needing Artist (Body Art), Professional Skill (Tattoo Artist) or something and the time & cost to make the tatoo in addition to casting requirements. Also they are often required to be visible to use, though that may be a house rule or carry over from the other article or GURPS Thaumatology.

This makes much more sense, thanks! If you ever find the rules source, different from Pyramid 3-56, let me know, please.

Originally Posted by Refplace

Herb Lore is generally cheaper but less flexible than Alchemy in most systems and settings, meaning fewer types of spells that can be made with it.

So, the solution is just that GM moderates herbal elixirs more strictly then alchemy ones?

Originally Posted by Refplace

You can have up to your normal number of charms but this option lets one or more of those charms be "stacked" charms of the same spell. Think of it like a magazine clip. So if you have 20 slots you could have up to 20 different items, each with up to 20 instances or shots of a single spell.

Originally Posted by Refplace

Stacked charms are indeed powerful but a nod to combat where they really help a mage out. I used them in two different campaigns, my limit is typically one days casting for each stack.

Wow, then it's even much more powerful then I thought! It seems that, if you have enough downtime, you have no reason to use ordinary charms in place of 'wands', because it effectively squares your spell slot number! Except for some special cases, the only reason to use non-stacked charms I can think of, is when don't have enough time. Is it intended? Seems like it would give rpm casters a real fighting power. Wouldn't it make them more powerful in combat then other characters, at the same time staying much more general (just becase of how rpm works)?

Also, some more questions about 'wands' have arised.

Say, I want to make a wand of fireballs, which should be able to have up to 20 copies of Fireball. I have to spend 20*1.2=24 hours, right? Could I divide it into three days of 8 hour work? And conversly, if I decide to spend all the time working at once, would I have any penalties except for missed sleep? What if, at the end of making the wand I failed the roll to create it? I have to start over?

Assume I managed to make it. Now I have 20 empty slots in it, does the wand consume one of my own slots already? Or it counts only when it has some spells?

How do I stuff it? When I make charms, I have to cast a spell immediately after preparing the object. Do I have to cast the 20 spells in a row to fill the 'wand', immediately after making it? Or could I make it, then rest, then cast some, then rest, then cast some again?
Could I refill a 'wand', if it's partially used? Like, if I used 10 fireballs out of 20, could I just recast 10 fireballs, without preparing the 'wand' again?

What if I want to have such a 'wand' (or several) at the beginning of adventure? Can I somehow calculate the dollar of CP cost of it?

[qchap]

Originally Posted by Varyon

If you feel this is unbalanced, you could instead have rituals stored in a Wand simply count as fewer Conditional Rituals

Right now I do feel that this is unbalanced, especially if playing something other then, like, Dungeon Fantasy. But the real question is should I feel like this, or am I wrong and there is an explanation why is it the way it is?

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by qchap

So, the solution is just that GM moderates herbal elixirs more strictly then alchemy ones?

Yep.

Originally Posted by qchap

Wow, then it's even much more powerful then I thought!
Also, some more questions about 'wands' have arised.

Say, I want to make a wand of fireballs, which should be able to have up to 20 copies of Fireball. I have to spend 20*1.2=24 hours, right? Could I divide it into three days of 8 hour work? And conversly, if I decide to spend all the time working at once, would I have any penalties except for missed sleep? What if, at the end of making the wand I failed the roll to create it? I have to start over?

This is where it comes under control.
Its one ritual so no stretching it out with breaks. The limit on your stack is thus based on the lower of ...

• Your maximum number of charm/conditional slots
• The amount of time you can devote to casting before needing to sleep
• The amount of energy you can gather in one casting, so your Energy Reserve or other source plus how many energy gathering rolls you try for (less a limit if using Effect Shaping variants)

If you fail the casting you have to do it all over again and wasted the energy, effort, and possibly materials (typically on a critical failure).

This casting charges the wand and has to be redone to recharge the wand. So if you built a 10 casting wand it would have 10 spells but you could not recharge it partially. You would have to wait till its empty then recast all the spells. So your usually going to want to make items you can fully charge in one day.
Those with Doesn't Sleep can cause a balance problem here!

My character bases the number of charges on what he can do in one day and carries two charged items for a high demand spell. That way when one is empty he can recharge it the next time he thinks he will have enough downtime. Of course that also means he risks going into the next encounter tired from lack of sleep and low on energy from his power reserves. Definitely a concern in the games I play in!

Originally Posted by qchap

What if I want to have such a 'wand' (or several) at the beginning of adventure? Can I somehow calculate the dollar of CP cost of it?

Seems fair to me, but that cost will go up dramatically the higher the energy cost. The fewer mages who could make such an item the more rare (and hence expensive) it would be.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by qchap

What if I want to have such a 'wand' (or several) at the beginning of adventure? Can I somehow calculate the dollar of CP cost of it?

I'll need to reread the article before I can give my thoughts on the other questions, but for this one, an option is to calculate the hourly wages for your character's Wealth level (this is generally 1/200th your monthly wage), multiply by how many hours it would take you to make the Wand, then divide that by your success rate for the relevant roll at the end. For example, let's say you are of Average Wealth and are in a TL3/DF campaign. Average monthly wage at TL3 is $700, which is $3.50 per hour. So, for a Wand that takes 24 hours to make, that's $84. If your effective skill you're rolling against is 15, that's a 95.4% chance of success, so divide by 0.954, for an end cost of $88.05, which I'd round up to $90 (honestly, I'd be inclined to just round it all the way up to $100). Add to this the cost of any materials used (I think Charms - and Wands - are generally assumed to use materials of negligible cost, however). Note this assumes you have to start over if you fail - essentially this means "I made this before the campaign started," but because you had to take time out to do it, you made less money, so you start with less. Dividing by chance of success basically covers failures; my own inclination would instead be to let the character pay $84 (to represent time), then have the player roll against the relevant skill; on a success, they have the item - but on a failure, they do not, but can pay another $84 for an additional attempt.

Originally Posted by qchap

Right now I do feel that this is unbalanced, especially if playing something other then, like, Dungeon Fantasy. But the real question is should I feel like this, or am I wrong and there is an explanation why is it the way it is?

I'd imagine it is the way it is because that's what's worked for the author's (Christopher Rice IIRC) games. The real way to see if it ends up being unbalanced is to simply try it out; if it causes mages to be far too powerful for your campaigns, then start adding limitations (which you may well be able to do during play, if your players are working with the understanding that you're using the campaign as a testbed).

Originally Posted by Refplace

Those with Doesn't Sleep can cause a balance problem here!

The mage should be able to stay up past their normal bedtime, but will suffer losses of FP and penalties to IQ for doing so. They may be able to avoid those, at least for a time, with appropriate drugs/potions - and Lesser Strengthen Body + Lesser Strengthen Mind should allow you to use Altered Traits (Advantage: Doesn't Sleep) get the same effect.

Personally, I think I'd be OK with the mage being able to break up the work into discrete chunks of time, but have the time invested fade while not in use. For example, maybe every hour between working causes you to "lose" 5 minutes of work. So, if you have a Wand that should take 24 hours to make, and you want to just do 8 hours a day, the first day you spend 8 hours, then wait 16 hours before starting again, losing (16*5)=80 minutes, and the same for day two and three, for 24 hours invested but (3*80)=240 minutes - 4 hours - lost. So, day four, you spend 4 hours making up for lost time, and your Wand is complete (provided you succeed at the roll).

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Varyon

The mage should be able to stay up past their normal bedtime, but will suffer losses of FP and penalties to IQ for doing so. They may be able to avoid those, at least for a time, with appropriate drugs/potions - and Lesser Strengthen Body + Lesser Strengthen Mind should allow you to use Altered Traits (Advantage: Doesn't Sleep) get the same effect.

Most characters in the authors campaign take some level of Reduced Consumption and Less Sleep as time is a very important factor in most of his campaigns. At least the ones I have been in so far.
He has some spells that restore lost Long term FP (with a catch) for missed sleep and as you noted these can help.
I would say Doesn't Sleep would require a Greater Effect as its an exotic and superhuman trait.
GURPS Social Engineering: Back to School is good info on pushing yourself very hard but there are rules in various places.

Originally Posted by Varyon

Personally, I think I'd be OK with the mage being able to break up the work into discrete chunks of time, but have the time invested fade while not in use. For example, maybe every hour between working causes you to "lose" 5 minutes of work. So, if you have a Wand that should take 24 hours to make, and you want to just do 8 hours a day, the first day you spend 8 hours, then wait 16 hours before starting again, losing (16*5)=80 minutes, and the same for day two and three, for 24 hours invested but (3*80)=240 minutes - 4 hours - lost. So, day four, you spend 4 hours making up for lost time, and your Wand is complete (provided you succeed at the roll).

Interesting math, how did you arrive at those numbers?
I did something similar for a variation on Meditative magic but used different numbers for lost time and making up for it.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Refplace

I would say Doesn't Sleep would require a Greater Effect as its an exotic and superhuman trait.

A lot depends on how you distinguish Greater vs Lesser effects. I often think of it more in terms of believability. A person not sleeping for a few nights in a row is believable enough I'd let you get away with Lesser effects so long as the duration isn't more than a week (a person who stays up for a solid week is generally going to get a bit loopy, and would be relying on stimulants to prevent nodding off near the tail end, but as Lesser Restore Body can heal you for HP up to twice what medical care of your TL can manage, I'm fine with that). But, yeah, I could certainly see an argument for it being Greater.

Originally Posted by Refplace

Interesting math, how did you arrive at those numbers?

If you're talking about losing 5 minutes for every hour, that was basically just pulled out of nowhere (my thoughts were actually more "1 hour lost for every 10 makes sense," which worked out to 6 minutes per hour, which I rounded down to 5 because multiples of 5 look cleaner than multiples of 6). I opted for 8-hour sessions because, realistically, I think spending longer than that in a day on a single task is going to introduce problems. Taking a nominal total of 24 hours was based on qchap's example of a 20-charge Wand taking 24 hours to make.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Varyon

If you're talking about losing 5 minutes for every hour, that was basically just pulled out of nowhere (my thoughts were actually more "1 hour lost for every 10 makes sense," which worked out to 6 minutes per hour, which I rounded down to 5 because multiples of 5 look cleaner than multiples of 6).

I went with something based on total hours and assuming 8 hour days. Here is the paragraph from a recent submission...
This grants 1 character point per 200 hours of work, typically 8 hours a day and 5 days a week. Interruption of more than a few days can let the energy unravel - wasting it all. To prevent this unraveling requires a success with Symbol Drawing at -1 per week since the last successful empowerment.

As you can see I left the number of hours a shift open to account for extra long shifts with HT rolls or special traits but it might warrant a more detailed look.