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Old 11-17-2023, 08:53 AM   #1
geppo_68
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Default Poisons, venoms and multiple doses

Hi,
I was wondering about the repeated use of poisons, venom etc..

I am bitten on turn1 by a giant venomous snake that inflicts 2d6 toxic damage if I fail an HT-3.
I pass and I do not take the damage.

Then in turn 3 it bites me again: do i repeat the entire process again?
And so on on every turn it bites me?
If yes, does it inflict me multiple doses of venom each time of 2d6 damage potential against my HT-3?
How many "doses" have the giant animal glands?

And what about a poisonous cloud? Do I have to roll against HT every turn with the same rules?

Thanks!
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Old 11-17-2023, 09:04 AM   #2
whswhs
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
Default Re: Poisons, venoms and multiple doses

Not every turn. A turn is only one second. The rules for toxic atmospheres call for a roll every minute to resist toxic gases, or every 15 seconds if most of the atmosphere is toxic. So you would roll at one of those intervals, after the initial exposure. At least, that's how I would do it.
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Old 11-17-2023, 09:12 AM   #3
Anthony
 
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Default Re: Poisons, venoms and multiple doses

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Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
Not every turn. A turn is only one second. The rules for toxic atmospheres call for a roll every minute to resist toxic gases, or every 15 seconds if most of the atmosphere is toxic. So you would roll at one of those intervals, after the initial exposure. At least, that's how I would do it.
You roll however often is specified in the description of the poison. An innate attack with the Persistent advantage appears to apply damage every turn.
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Old 11-17-2023, 09:41 AM   #4
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Default Re: Poisons, venoms and multiple doses

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Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
You roll however often is specified in the description of the poison. An innate attack with the Persistent advantage appears to apply damage every turn.
That applies if the poison was bought as an advantage (and perhaps part of a power). But if you're on a planet with toxic gases in the atmosphere, or in the gases released by a volcanic eruption, or if you've been hit by a mechanical trap, such considerations won't apply.

The rules for toxic atmospheres appear to reflect an estimate of how often a character breathes, or how quickly atmospheric concentrations build up to lethal effects. And I think most exposures to toxic gases can just as well be assimilated to those cases as to anything else.

I might even apply this to toxic gases released by a living creature, as a guide to how its toxic attack should be built.
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Old 11-17-2023, 09:57 AM   #5
Anthony
 
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Default Re: Poisons, venoms and multiple doses

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Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
The rules for toxic atmospheres appear to reflect an estimate of how often a character breathes, or how quickly atmospheric concentrations build up to lethal effects. And I think most exposures to toxic gases can just as well be assimilated to those cases as to anything else.
The rules for toxic atmospheres reflect those atmospheres not really being that toxic. They don't really tell us anything about any other situations.
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Old 11-17-2023, 10:51 AM   #6
geppo_68
 
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Default Re: Poisons, venoms and multiple doses

Yes, my thought was more about giant snakes/ giant dragons in a cinematic fantasy adventure than a planetary environment
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Old 11-17-2023, 11:03 AM   #7
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Default Re: Poisons, venoms and multiple doses

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Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
The rules for toxic atmospheres reflect those atmospheres not really being that toxic. They don't really tell us anything about any other situations.
Realistically, death in an hour is extraordinarily rapid for poisons. Generally, the lethality of a toxin is not about the time it takes to die, but the time it takes for death to become inevitable.
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Old 11-17-2023, 11:03 AM   #8
Varyon
 
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Default Re: Poisons, venoms and multiple doses

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Originally Posted by geppo_68 View Post
Then in turn 3 it bites me again: do i repeat the entire process again?
And so on on every turn it bites me?
If yes, does it inflict me multiple doses of venom each time of 2d6 damage potential against my HT-3?
Yes, on all accounts. An alternative would be to expand the rules for multiple doses a bit - you roll against HT once, when first exposed to the poison. Further doses instead result in a -2 to HT per doubling (or -1 per +1 SSR - 1, 1.5, 2, 3, 5, 7, 10, 15, etc) of the dosage, and you just reuse the initial roll against each. So, say with the first bite you had MoS 3. That means the second bite reduces this to MoS 1, the third to MoS 0, and either the fourth or fifth (depending on if you go with doubling or SSR) gives MoF 1, meaning you suffer the effects of the poison for that dose and all subsequent doses.

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Originally Posted by geppo_68 View Post
How many "doses" have the giant animal glands?
If it isn't built on points, that's up to the GM (or the designer if they included notes to this effect) in terms of how many doses the monster has available during the fight. If it is built on points, that would depend on what relevant Limitations (Limited Use, Takes Recharge, etc) the attack has - without any such Limitations, the monster has effectively unlimited doses (they remake their poison as quickly as they use it). For how much poison the animal has for purposes of harvesting from its corpse after the fight, I believe DF2 has some relevant guidelines there.

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Originally Posted by geppo_68 View Post
And what about a poisonous cloud? Do I have to roll against HT every turn with the same rules?
Depends on how it's statted out; absent relevant statistics, I'd say whswhs' suggestions of per minute or per 15 seconds (depending on concentration) should work. Alternatively, do something like the above - the target gets one dose immediately (calling for a roll to resist), and each additional minute or 15 seconds (or whatever interval you choose) counts as an additional dose. With MoS 3, as above, you would begin to suffer the effects after 4 or 5 minutes in the first case, 1 minute (60 seconds) or 1 minute 15 seconds (75 seconds) in the second.
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Old 11-17-2023, 11:22 AM   #9
Anthony
 
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Default Re: Poisons, venoms and multiple doses

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Realistically, death in an hour is extraordinarily rapid for poisons.
Sure, but that's just a combination of death in general being too fast in GURPS (pretty much any case of 'death' should really be interpreted as 'still technically alive for a bit but incapacitated and unsaveable'), and it just taking inconveniently large amounts of poison to kill someone fast.
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Old 11-17-2023, 05:58 PM   #10
Pursuivant
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Default Re: Poisons, venoms and multiple doses

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanW View Post
Realistically, death in an hour is extraordinarily rapid for poisons. Generally, the lethality of a toxin is not about the time it takes to die, but the time it takes for death to become inevitable.
Pretty much, although some neurotoxins and toxins which cause oxygen starvation or quick heart attack are the exceptions.
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