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Old 09-15-2019, 04:43 PM   #1
awesomenessofme1
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Default Clarification on something related to Growth

P50 contains the following paragraph:

The GM should permit those with Growth to buy Enhanced Move (Ground) to reflect their vast stride. A reasonable limit is levels of Enhanced Move equal to half the level of Growth. If this Enhanced Move appears gradually as the character grows, it requires the Size limitation, just like additional ST.

What exactly does "Size limitation" mean in this context? It sounds like it means the full -10%*Growth level, same with ST, but that doesn't make any sense. If that were true, there would be points at which the price of Enhanced Move would net go down as you increased Growth level. So how should it be done? And once that's answered, would it make sense to apply a similar system to DR?
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Old 09-15-2019, 04:48 PM   #2
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Default Re: Clarification on something related to Growth

I read it as referring to the size limitation just as ST. The idea is that a bigger size is inconvenient so having to be large to use an ability so warrants a cost break.
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Old 09-15-2019, 04:56 PM   #3
awesomenessofme1
 
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Default Re: Clarification on something related to Growth

Maybe, but the Fifty-Foot Man subtemplate for Brick in Supers uses Only when enlarged, -10% for its DR and DR. I'm not clear if that means it gradually appears or if it only appears when fully grown, but in either case, it suggests that it might not work that way. If only that template had Enhanced Move, my question would already have been answered.
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Old 09-15-2019, 05:38 PM   #4
David Johnston2
 
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Default Re: Clarification on something related to Growth

Quote:
Originally Posted by awesomenessofme1 View Post
P50 contains the following paragraph:

The GM should permit those with Growth to buy Enhanced Move (Ground) to reflect their vast stride. A reasonable limit is levels of Enhanced Move equal to half the level of Growth. If this Enhanced Move appears gradually as the character grows, it requires the Size limitation, just like additional ST.

What exactly does "Size limitation" mean in this context? It sounds like it means the full -10%*Growth level, same with ST, but that doesn't make any sense. If that were true, there would be points at which the price of Enhanced Move would net go down as you increased Growth level.
I'm not following your arithmetic.
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Old 09-15-2019, 07:20 PM   #5
awesomenessofme1
 
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Default Re: Clarification on something related to Growth

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Originally Posted by David Johnston2 View Post
I'm not following your arithmetic.
When you have Growth, you can buy ST with the Size limitation of the largest SM you can grow to. For example, I'm building a super that has Growth 7, so he's able to buy all his ST above his normal human version with -70% in Size limitations. Powers adds a note saying that it makes sense for a grown character to move faster, and that if your Enhanced Move comes in as you grow, you should also buy it with Size limitation. But I think that the way it's phrased doesn't make much sense, and I'm not sure how to work it.
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Old 09-15-2019, 07:44 PM   #6
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Default Re: Clarification on something related to Growth

Quote:
Originally Posted by awesomenessofme1 View Post
When you have Growth, you can buy ST with the Size limitation of the largest SM you can grow to. For example, I'm building a super that has Growth 7, so he's able to buy all his ST above his normal human version with -70% in Size limitations. Powers adds a note saying that it makes sense for a grown character to move faster, and that if your Enhanced Move comes in as you grow, you should also buy it with Size limitation. But I think that the way it's phrased doesn't make much sense, and I'm not sure how to work it.
Growth 7 would allow Enhanced Move 3 (Only at full size, 70%) [18] or perhaps 3.5 [21].
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Old 09-15-2019, 07:48 PM   #7
David Johnston2
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Default Re: Clarification on something related to Growth

Quote:
Originally Posted by awesomenessofme1 View Post
When you have Growth, you can buy ST with the Size limitation of the largest SM you can grow to. For example, I'm building a super that has Growth 7, so he's able to buy all his ST above his normal human version with -70% in Size limitations. Powers adds a note saying that it makes sense for a grown character to move faster, and that if your Enhanced Move comes in as you grow, you should also buy it with Size limitation. But I think that the way it's phrased doesn't make much sense
I'm still not following your arithmetic. What's the problem?
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Old 09-16-2019, 06:36 AM   #8
Plane
 
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Default Re: Clarification on something related to Growth

Quote:
Originally Posted by awesomenessofme1 View Post
What exactly does "Size limitation" mean in this context?
It sounds like it means the full -10%*Growth level, same with ST, but that doesn't make any sense.
If that were true, there would be points at which the price of Enhanced Move would net go down as you increased Growth level.
I'm not sure what you mean as limitations always decrease the cost of advantages, what doesn't make sense about it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by awesomenessofme1 View Post
would it make sense to apply a similar system to DR?
IMO yeah, not to mention any innate attack reflecting natural weapons (giant dragons breathing bigger fires than tiny dragons)

Quote:
Originally Posted by awesomenessofme1 View Post
Maybe, but the Fifty-Foot Man subtemplate for Brick in Supers uses Only when enlarged, -10% for its DR and DR. I'm not clear if that means it gradually appears or if it only appears when fully grown, but in either case, it suggests that it might not work that way. If only that template had Enhanced Move, my question would already have been answered.
Good find... I think for getting partial levels we might use "Costs Fatigue, Variable" (Power-Ups 8 pg 12) as an example of how ascending limitations begin low (initially -1 to hit for a 1d attack, or requires growing 1 size level to get 1 DR) but grow with a leveled advantage (-3 to hit for a 3d attack, or requiring growing 3 size levels to get 3 DR)

resembles "Declining Enhancements" (Power-Ups 4 pg 17)

If I recall right the cost works out something along the lines of half the value compared to the limitation applying fully at all levels instead of just the highest.
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Old 09-16-2019, 07:22 AM   #9
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Default Re: Clarification on something related to Growth

Quote:
Originally Posted by awesomenessofme1 View Post
P50 contains the following paragraph:

The GM should permit those with Growth to buy Enhanced Move (Ground) to reflect their vast stride. A reasonable limit is levels of Enhanced Move equal to half the level of Growth. If this Enhanced Move appears gradually as the character grows, it requires the Size limitation, just like additional ST.

What exactly does "Size limitation" mean in this context? It sounds like it means the full -10%*Growth level, same with ST, but that doesn't make any sense. If that were true, there would be points at which the price of Enhanced Move would net go down as you increased Growth level. So how should it be done? And once that's answered, would it make sense to apply a similar system to DR?
My guess would be "Only while grown, -20%".
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Old 09-16-2019, 07:54 AM   #10
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Default Re: Clarification on something related to Growth

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Johnston2 View Post
I'm still not following your arithmetic. What's the problem?
Enhanced Move 3 (Size 6, -60%) [24] is cheaper than Enhanced Move 2.5 (Size 5, -50%) [25], even though it provides the same benefits up to SM+5 (gradually increasing Enhanced Move as you grow larger) and then also a little more when you reach SM+6.

EM 2.5 (Size 5, -50%) [25]
EM 3 (Size 6, -60%) [24]
EM 3.5 (Size 7, -70%) [21]
EM 4 (Size 8, -80%) [16]

But to get it you have to pay for the Growth advantage, so the combined package still increases in price at each step.
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