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Old 07-01-2022, 06:24 AM   #51
Varyon
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Default Re: Using Erotic Art Skill

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Originally Posted by davidklayer View Post
rotic artwork is a type of art that has been developed with the goal of sexually stimulating its intended viewers, and that achieves this goal to some extent.
While it's a running joke that the Erotic Art skill is the skill of making erotic artwork, that would more likely be a subspecialization (or perhaps a Technique) of Artist or a similar skill. Typically of Artist (Drawing), but Illusion, Painting, Sensie Interface, Sculpting, etc could all apply (as for other skills, Photography, some forms of Electronics Operation, Writing, etc could all apply; if a skill can be used to generate smut, humans have used it to generate smut).
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Old 07-01-2022, 08:21 AM   #52
oneofmanynameless
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: New Hampshire, USA
Default Re: Using Erotic Art Skill

Chinese elemental powers also covers inducing euphoria and ecstasy in a partner: success induces euphoria, critical success induces ecstasy. It's mute on the topic of how long that lasts but my instinct is that it's intended to last as long as you keep at it? I find this more believably realistic then the OPs writeup.

Some notes:
- I would suspect that you could eat a -10 to attempt to induce ecstasy on purpose.
- And I would suspect that this would have some measure of "onset" (maybe 1 minute? or appropriate sexual tension build up, either way it's not something you can spring on someone successfully, so no using it like a drug syringe to incapacitate a guard when your fast-talk fails, or incapacitate an enemy in combat [except in certain "Enemies to Lovers" romance contexts with preexisting sexual tension.]) There's no real bypassing the "you have to want to have sex to enjoy it".
- I would personally also rule, were it to matter, that the ecstasy didn't automatically inflict 1 fp per minute, but instead required a HT check or HT based EA check every minute or lose 1 fp, similar to paced running. It also ends if the person passes out.
- Generally my gaming group plays with the skill getting a +5 for "ordinary sexual practice" that doesn't involve anything weird or particular or kinky (except maybe contextual kinkyness), turning it into a normal stat roll. I think that comes from a book somewhere (social engineering maybe?) but I didn't introduce it to my group so I'm not really sure.
- We also play with a rule that minor failure (MoF 1-3) means you "Had fun but not so much as to have any game mechanical benefit."
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Old 07-01-2022, 11:28 AM   #53
whswhs
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
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Default Re: Using Erotic Art Skill

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Originally Posted by oneofmanynameless View Post
- Generally my gaming group plays with the skill getting a +5 for "ordinary sexual practice" that doesn't involve anything weird or particular or kinky (except maybe contextual kinkyness), turning it into a normal stat roll. I think that comes from a book somewhere (social engineering maybe?) but I didn't introduce it to my group so I'm not really sure.
I recommended that in a Pyramid article, as an example of rolls where you had enough of a bonus to roll against the stat. I referred to it as "basic sexual technique."
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Old 07-01-2022, 01:17 PM   #54
Inky
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
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Default Re: Using Erotic Art Skill

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Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
While it's a running joke that the Erotic Art skill is the skill of making erotic artwork, that would more likely be a subspecialization (or perhaps a Technique) of Artist or a similar skill. Typically of Artist (Drawing), but Illusion, Painting, Sensie Interface, Sculpting, etc could all apply (as for other skills, Photography, some forms of Electronics Operation, Writing, etc could all apply; if a skill can be used to generate smut, humans have used it to generate smut).
I think it may have been some kind of spambot - note that "Erotic Art" in the original quote has been replaced with "Pixel Art" with a link.
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Old 07-01-2022, 01:31 PM   #55
Varyon
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Default Re: Using Erotic Art Skill

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Originally Posted by Inky View Post
I think it may have been some kind of spambot - note that "Erotic Art" in the original quote has been replaced with "Pixel Art" with a link.
Ah, I had thought maybe it was a bot from the seeming-nonsequitor, hadn't even noticed the link (and modification) in the quote.
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Old 07-01-2022, 02:03 PM   #56
oneofmanynameless
 
Join Date: May 2012
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Default Re: Using Erotic Art Skill

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Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
I recommended that in a Pyramid article, as an example of rolls where you had enough of a bonus to roll against the stat. I referred to it as "basic sexual technique."
I might own that pyramid article then. Which pyramid issue/article was it?
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Old 07-01-2022, 02:06 PM   #57
whswhs
 
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Default Re: Using Erotic Art Skill

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Originally Posted by oneofmanynameless View Post
I might own that pyramid article then. Which pyramid issue/article was it?
See Alternate GURPS III, Pyramid 3/65.
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Old 07-01-2022, 02:21 PM   #58
Plane
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Re: Using Erotic Art Skill

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Originally Posted by Ashtagon View Post
I suspect SJG glossed over exact details of what the skill can be used for because, while it is a thing that really exists, it is also a thing that gets the Mary Whitehouse brigade very upset, and SJG is keen to keep GURPS as a family-friendly product.
One thing I was wondering about seduction and reactiveness to erotic stimulation might be if we could borrow some of the principles used in the "Mental Control Points" system in Pyramid 3/83 for "Possessions Under Control" which Ponce had adapted from Cole's Technical Grappling.

Instead of purely mental control, this would be some blend between MCP and what I'd retroactively rename "Physical Control Points", since we're talking about managing both mental and physical reactions via a DX-based skill.

If we were to quantify the 'end goal' of Erotic Art you could probably approximate it with an "attack" advantage like Affliction w/ these modifiers, just assume this is an "exotic" advantage all mundane people actually have, for free.

Or if you don't like free, whatever our final cost is, we can come up w/ some kinda disadvantage of equal value that pays for it.

Although you would roll against DX or a grappling skill to set up the "requires grapple" component (1st attack) the 2nd attack (which is normally Brawling for "Melee" limited attack advantages, though I forget where I read this) would be against Erotic Art.

Enhancements +150%
Primary Irritation: Euphoria +30%
Secondary Incapacitation: Ecstacy +20%
Malediction 1 +100% (to get a quick contest, otherwise your MoS in EA won't make it harder to resist)
Limitations -170%
Reduced Duration 1/60 (MoS seconds) -35%
Melee Attack C -30%
Requires Reaction Roll -5% (PU8p13 variant of Fickle)

Contact Agent -30% (from Powers
(Melee) Requires Grapple -10% (Powers: The Weird)

Easily Resisted 4 -20% (+4 to the HT or Will roll to resist)
Increased Immunity 2 -20% (Cumulative -2 lasting 1 day)
Nuisance Effect: Target rolls against the better of HT or Will (borrowed from Slayer's Strike in Monster Hunters, dunno the Under the Hood here) -20%
This is net -20% reducing 10pts to 8pts.

To make this cheaper we can also use three of the various "Potential Advantage" rules GURPS has to successively halve/quarter/8th the cost. As characters get more experience they can pay character points to buy these parts off.

1. B254 - like Psi functions like Uncontrollable and Unconscious Only (this would be the first part you buy off, represents someone unaware of how to use their sexuality to Afflict others)

2. Halved Advantage (PU8p9)
per B378 "if an attack has a 1/2D range but requires a resistance roll to avoid an affliction of some sort, add +3 to the resistance roll instead of halving damage"
3. Latent Advantage (PU8p9) though I think the "from -5 for a stress-free situation to +5 for a true life-and-death emergency" might need tweaking?
This reduces the 4pt cost down to a single perk.

What quirk would pay for it?
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Old 07-01-2022, 03:33 PM   #59
whswhs
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
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Default Re: Using Erotic Art Skill

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Originally Posted by Plane View Post
One thing I was wondering about seduction and reactiveness to erotic stimulation might be if we could borrow some of the principles used in the "Mental Control Points" system in Pyramid 3/83 for "Possessions Under Control" which Ponce had adapted from Cole's Technical Grappling.
I know there are people who like or want that sort of system for social interaction, but I made a point of avoiding it in Social Engineering.

In the first place, all of those point-based systems strike me as artificial. I can deal with hit points, and with fatigue points, but when we're talking about control points in grappling, they seem like a purely abstract idea that can't be equated to anything observable or measurable. And mental control points seem even more so.

In the second place, the model seems to be that you try to seduce someone, and you produce a little arousal, and then you try again, and you produce more, and gradually you wear down their resistance and get your target receptive. And I don't know if I believe that. It seems to me that, by and large, if you approach someone, they decide quickly whether you're a potential partner, and if they don't favor you, there's not much chance that they'll change their mind.

And in the third place, and most important, this "wearing down their resistance" model seems to me to suggest duress or even outright coercion. And I find that kind of an ugly model, and not the sort of thing I want to focus a game on. Back when I was doing Social Engineering, Beth McCoy took the Quick Contest approach to Influence rolls as implying coercion, in that it seemed to be about "overcoming the other person's will," and that discussion led me to think that the roll of Will was rather as a measure of how definite your values, goals, and preferences were; I thought that Diplomacy never involved duress, and that several of the other Influence skills weren't primarily based on it. I prefer reaction rolls or Influence rolls.
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Old 07-02-2022, 02:36 AM   #60
Plane
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Re: Using Erotic Art Skill

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Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
I can deal with hit points, and with fatigue points, but when we're talking about control points in grappling, they seem like a purely abstract idea that can't be equated to anything observable or measurable. And mental control points seem even more so.
They model progressive influence over another entity, how that influence fluctuates over time, and how you can use that influence.

Compare this to say "just make a reaction roll" which is purely random and the success of prior rolls can't influence later ones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
In the second place, the model seems to be that you try to seduce someone, and you produce a little arousal, and then you try again, and you produce more, and gradually you wear down their resistance and get your target receptive. And I don't know if I believe that.

It seems to me that, by and large, if you approach someone, they decide quickly whether you're a potential partner, and if they don't favor you, there's not much chance that they'll change their mind.
That could vary on either person in the situation. It's easier to handwaive something as "they never considered me potential so it's not my fault for misbehaving" even when that's not true.

There should definitely be different outcome paths than gradual wear-down though, which is why I put in the Increased Immunity limitation on the Affliction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
And in the third place, and most important, this "wearing down their resistance" model seems to me to suggest duress or even outright coercion. And I find that kind of an ugly model, and not the sort of thing I want to focus a game on.
Except it is entirely possible for the weaker party to "wear down" a stronger party (look at for example how Talia or Catwoman wear down Batman's rough exterior over multiple encounters even though he's consistently a superior fighter to them) who is too powerful for us to reasonably think they're succumbing out of coercion or duress.

Quote:
Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
Back when I was doing Social Engineering, Beth McCoy took the Quick Contest approach to Influence rolls as implying coercion, in that it seemed to be about "overcoming the other person's will," and that discussion led me to think that the roll of Will was rather as a measure of how definite your values, goals, and preferences were;
I'm not understanding the difference - if someone has a more definite sense of goals/values so much so that it impresses the other party into seeing their merits and adopting those as their own, then the will was overcome.

If this was merely about seeing the more objectively better set of goals, then the GM would need to decide on what those were and have IQ rolls aimed in the direction of everyone's mutual realization of that.

Otherwise, influence skills aren't so much about realizing what is the best goal, but in the more charismatic party being able to convince the other party that it is the best goal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
I thought that Diplomacy never involved duress, and that several of the other Influence skills weren't primarily based on it. I prefer reaction rolls or Influence rolls.
Diplomacy may not involve duress as immediate or obvious as something like Intimidation but I expect it does involve subtler amounts of it, like subtly alluding to the armaments of a nation, or who controls the waterways or food production or energy production in international trade.
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