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Old 11-12-2021, 07:56 PM   #1
hcobb
 
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Default Holy Swords

To make a holy sword you need a Priest who knows Weapon/Armor Enchantment and a temple. Every day you bring in 75 worshipers for a hour long ritual and at the end of two weeks you have a +1 sword.


Why not just get three apprentices instead? This way you don't have to shell out for a wizard's lab.
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Old 11-13-2021, 09:50 AM   #2
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Default Re: Holy Swords

Interesting proposal. From a flavor perspective though, if the priest can enchant an item without the “scientific” equipment of a lab, are you introducing a kind of divine magic to the game?
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Why not just get three apprentices instead? This way you don't have to shell out for a wizard's lab.
Or paying/training of the apprentices.
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Old 11-13-2021, 02:42 PM   #3
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Henry must be introducing some special effects associated with prayer, if 75 parishioners can contribute 1 ST ea. to the enchantment.

Mind, I'm not averse to having some effects generated by prayer. It's a magical land, where recitation and hand motions make magic happen. Maybe some of those recitations and motions are called prayer and have a minor effect for people unskilled in magic.

Religion plays some role in my campaign, but nothing miraculous so far. One religion has priests well-versed in magic, sometimes pulling the wool over the eyes of their flock[1]. The other major religion does not use magic at all. If I think it moves the game in an interesting tradition, I could throw a(n apparent) miracle in.

[1] Probably a poor choice of mixed metaphors.
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Old 11-18-2021, 07:53 AM   #4
Jack O'All Trades
 
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Notably this is a setting where illusions involve (potentially) everyone's magical participation and everyone can magically disbelieve. It doesn't take much stretching to imagine a sort of weak form of Aid or a powerful version of Illusion is what is ultimately at work here. In fact you could make this sort of "divine enchantment" have a weakness to (mass?) disbelief to differentiate it further from regular enchantment.
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Old 11-22-2021, 01:39 PM   #5
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Default Re: Holy Swords

Thinking about this a little more...

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Originally Posted by Jack O'All Trades View Post
Notably this is a setting where illusions involve (potentially) everyone's magical participation and everyone can magically disbelieve. It doesn't take much stretching to imagine a sort of weak form of Aid or a powerful version of Illusion is what is ultimately at work here. In fact you could make this sort of "divine enchantment" have a weakness to (mass?) disbelief to differentiate it further from regular enchantment.
Yeah, the game's text mentioning that disbelieving is "actually a magic spell so simple that anyone may attempt it" was the first thing I thought of when reading the original post. Not that it's necessarily specific to Illusion magic, but that it's a basic magic anyone can tap into, especially when lead in a religious ceremony.

However, I can see getting 75 worshippers to show for two weeks straight somewhat problematic. It'd have to be a fairly large church to have that many dedicated followers show up every evening. Possibly if it were part of a special holiday, which would draw more people (the "Easter and Christmas" church-goers), but that would also probably limit when and how often such a ritual could be conducted.

My other question would be, why, exactly, does using this method obviate the need of a wizard's lab? Beyond the "because I'm house-ruling that it does" reasoning?

Creating a magic item normally needs a wizard's lab*, not because it's simply the location that it needs to be done in, but because of what's in it - tools, ingredients, tomes. That's what you're paying that ten grand for.

*Side Note: Weapon/Armor Enchantment section under Creating Magic Items (pg 149) actually doesn't specify a lab is needed, where both the Lesser and Greater Magic Item Creation sections do. I'm going with the assumption that W/A Enchantment does need a lab and this was an oversight, because it would seem weird if it didn't, when it follows all the other item creation rules.

If the option of enchanting the sword in a temple removes this requirement, then it seems to me that the version of Weapon/Armor Enchantment the priest knows in this proposed option is not the same as the spell a guild Wizard would know. Significantly different, in fact. It starts to feel like a Divine/Arcane magic divide, which is fine if one want's that chocolate in their TFT peanut butter, but I kind of like the absence of gods-granted magic in the as-is game.

If I were to use this in my campaign (with non-divine assumptions), I'd rule the temple still needs the equivalent of a wizard's lab in it to create the item. Again, it's only going to be larger temples that can afford a room decked out with ten grand of equipment. Though the priest using it doesn't necessarily need to pay for it themselves - it can come out of congregation tithes/donations, or at least partly. Also, older churches may have such a "lab" already, established generations ago. Just the maintenance cost would need to be paid to keep it functional.

I'd also rule that the lab (aka "consecration chamber") is different enough from a regular wizard's version that it couldn't be used by just a regular wizard. It's books, procedures and ceremonies would be too steeped in the traditions of the church's religion that it requires the Priest talent as well. In addition, all dice rolls would be +1 die difficulty if the priest is not of the same religion.

In the end, the priest is only really saving the cost of apprentices, but this would make a great bit of flavor for a campaign.
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Old 11-22-2021, 01:57 PM   #6
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Default Re: Holy Swords

Gonna make an illiterate hero with Weapon/Armor Enchantment someday. Was tempted to make her a dwarf weaponsmith, but they're all about them runes.

Are the rules you are looking for
ITL 142 "or to make magic items of any variety"
with the exception of the three types noted at the bottom left of ITL 149?
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Old 11-22-2021, 02:37 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
Are the rules you are looking for
ITL 142 "or to make magic items of any variety"
with the exception of the three types noted at the bottom left of ITL 149?
Yeah, that would cover the Weapon/Armor Enchantment then, too. Just odd that it's explicitly called out again for Lesser/Greater items, but not Weapon/Armor. If it needed to be re-iterated, seems like just adding it to the "The Process" section on 149 would have been clearer.
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Old 11-22-2021, 09:04 PM   #8
David Bofinger
 
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Why not just get three apprentices instead? This way you don't have to shell out for a wizard's lab.
That doesn't seem like a fun reason to me.
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Old 11-22-2021, 09:07 PM   #9
David Bofinger
 
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I've nothing against divine magic if that's what you want. But I think it should do something very different to what regular magic does, and it should be absent from the default setting of Cidri, or at least from Elyntia-Ardonirane-etc.
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Old 11-22-2021, 09:11 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Oneiros View Post
However, I can see getting 75 worshippers to show for two weeks straight somewhat problematic. It'd have to be a fairly large church to have that many dedicated followers show up every evening. Possibly if it were part of a special holiday, which would draw more people (the "Easter and Christmas" church-goers)
Not all societies are as easy-going about church attendance as ours. Perhaps attendance is enforced by social pressure, fear of divine smiting or threat of mundane violence.
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