![]() |
![]() |
#1 |
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Porto Alegre, Rio Grande do Sul, Brasil
|
![]()
Hey folks, I was wondering about this one of this days, and I thought about bringing some other voices into the discussion...
In D&D we have CR - Challenge Rating - that is a measure of how challenging a creature - or another type of challenge - is for a group of characters. CR takes into account the average ammount of power that a group of characters would have and how difficult it would be to beat it. My point here is: what makes up a good challenge - what should the point total be - for a NPC/Monster or group of NPCs/Monsters for a 4 150-points GURPS group? |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#2 |
GURPS Line Editor
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Montréal, Québec
|
![]()
There's no way to gauge it. D20 levels ultimately measure combat capability. I'm not ragging on that game for being "less of a RPG" than GURPS, but it's pretty hard to refute the claim that a D20 level measures little beyond pre-combat buffing, combat, and post-combat healing. GURPS points rate academic knowledge, artistic skill, long-term strategic thinking, social capability, social rank, technical expertise, etc. If your four 150-point PCs are The World's Best Accountant, The World's Best Philosopher, The World's Best Sculptor, and The World's Best Wagon Repairman, with maybe 10 points of combat skills between them, then a single, rabid skunk is going to be a threat.
The best thing to do is to make sure that damage, combat skills, modified active defenses, and DR are roughly comparable. If not, then the side with higher ratings in an area should either have lower numbers or lower ratings in another area if the encounter is meant to be fair. Don't overlook specialization, either. If your four 150-point PCs are all battle mages, then a single tough warrior with Magic Resistance 20 might be able to defeat the lot of them. If they're four 150-point karate masters, then an intangible, life-draining spirit they can't hit will kill them all. Points don't mean much; you have to check every single special ability against every single other one.
__________________
Sean "Dr. Kromm" Punch <kromm@sjgames.com> GURPS Line Editor, Steve Jackson Games My DreamWidth [Just GURPS News] |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#3 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Nashville, TN
|
![]() Quote:
That being said, coming from a D&D background, GURPS characters in fantasy/ medieval setting are much more vulnerable to being outnumbered than their D&D counterparts. A D&D fighter at high levels can take on literally hordes of enemies -- this is generally not the case in GURPS.
__________________
I didn't realize who I was until I stopped being who I wasn't. Formerly known as Bookman- forum name changed 1/3/2018. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#4 | |
GURPS Line Editor
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Montréal, Québec
|
![]() Quote:
__________________
Sean "Dr. Kromm" Punch <kromm@sjgames.com> GURPS Line Editor, Steve Jackson Games My DreamWidth [Just GURPS News] |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#5 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
|
![]() Quote:
In the end it's nothing more than guesswork done by game designers who have no idea what sort of characters you've got in the game what sort of magic items supplied from supplements written by a different publisher. You're better off making your own estimates based on your more thorough knowledge re: the PCs. Point value in GURPS is an approximation. Where GURPS differs from D&D is that GURPS does not try to tell you that monster X is a match for party A. Your best bet is to keep copies of the PCs with you and play out combat before you go to the game. You can spot any inherent flaws in your combat plan, and eliminate say the +10 DR after noting the max damage of your toughest combatant is 1d+3 or drop that vulnerability to electricity if you have a wizard with a lot of electrical spells.
__________________
...().0...0() .../..........\ -/......O.....\- ...VVVVVVV ..^^^^^^^ A clock running two hours slow has the correct time zero times a day. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#6 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
|
![]() Quote:
__________________
...().0...0() .../..........\ -/......O.....\- ...VVVVVVV ..^^^^^^^ A clock running two hours slow has the correct time zero times a day. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#7 | |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
|
![]() Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#8 | ||
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Nashville, TN
|
![]() Quote:
Q: How many Kobolds can a naked 20th level fighter with an ordinary sword defeat? A: Lots. Lots and lots and lots. It is true that in D&D the whole "Challenge Rating" thing assumes "standard" amounts of magical equipment are assumed, but I don't really see how that negates the point that I made. Quote:
__________________
I didn't realize who I was until I stopped being who I wasn't. Formerly known as Bookman- forum name changed 1/3/2018. |
||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#9 | ||
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
|
![]() Quote:
We will put him up against 30 kobolds. We will assume they are reasonably intelligent, and thus somewhat dispersed, so the fighter only kills two per round. We will give the fighter first attack. Before dying, the kobolds get 28+26+24+22+20+18+16+14+12+10+8+6+4+2 attacks, or 182 attacks, for a total of, on average, 159 damage. If you prefer melee attackers, kobolds are obviously inferior, let's go with humans. Humans Warrior-1s with long spears do 1d8+1 with an attack bonus of, likely, +3 (assume attack focus). Their ideal dispersal results in 16 of them being able to attack at once, and the fighters gets to kill 3. If that happens, of course, the fighter is flanked, and he's taking 40+ damage per round. Quote:
|
||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#10 | |
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeville, MN
|
![]() Quote:
the important things, I'd think are 1. some sort of protection from criticals. This is what can end a fight on an otherwise impervious foe 2. Some soft of protection from flanking/rear hex attacks. Dancing shield(s)? Dancing weapons? 3. Any sort of thing that would allow you to dispatch more than one opponent in a round.
__________________
My blog:Gaming Ballistic, LLC My Store: Gaming Ballistic on Shopify My Patreon: Gaming Ballistic on Patreon |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
Tags |
challenge, d&d, gm advice, kromm answer |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|