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Old 09-10-2021, 08:38 AM   #31
DataPacRat
 
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Default Re: Guns! Guns! Guns! and GURPS

Flipping through 3G3, I'm trying to figure out how its approach to energy-weapon stunners works, and how it translates to GURPS.

For instance, if you go for a carrier-laser with minimal DV, even down to 1, does that place any limits on how many Joules of zappage you can fire down the beam-path? (As long as your battery or capacitor can dump that much energy at once, of course.)

And how do 3G3's "stun damage" numbers translate into GURPS terms? I can find mentions in 3G3 that a stunner pushing out 100 J does DV 9 damage, 1000 J does DV 27, and all the way up to 40,000 J doing DV 124. But in GURPS' own Ultra-Tech, electrolasers' damage are described in terms of a penalty to an HT roll, and optionally a kill setting which causes a heart-attack if the HT roll is failed by 5.


To try checking some of the numbers, I'm trying to throw together a 3G3 ultratech wristwatch stunner; I'm guessing TL19, a laser DV of 1 needing 6.8 J, a "fixed mount" instead of a pistol grip, and with the mass x0.5 and stunner options; that seems to end up with a mass of 43.46 x 1.1 x 0.5 x 1.1 = 26.29 grams (0.058 lbs) (plus batteries, at 60% efficiency), cost 660.73 Cr, emitter length 2.7 cm, and 3G3 weapon stats of Range Class 1/1, Inherent Accuracy 1, RoF 10/s, Bulk VS/1, AV 2, 1BP. But I could easily have gotten any or all of that wrong. Anyone care to point out any errors I've made? :)
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Old 09-10-2021, 09:52 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by DataPacRat View Post
Flipping through 3G3, I'm trying to figure out how its approach to energy-weapon stunners works, and how it translates to GURPS.

For instance, if you go for a carrier-laser with minimal DV, even down to 1, does that place any limits on how many Joules of zappage you can fire down the beam-path? (As long as your battery or capacitor can dump that much energy at once, of course.)

And how do 3G3's "stun damage" numbers translate into GURPS terms? I can find mentions in 3G3 that a stunner pushing out 100 J does DV 9 damage, 1000 J does DV 27, and all the way up to 40,000 J doing DV 124. But in GURPS' own Ultra-Tech, electrolasers' damage are described in terms of a penalty to an HT roll, and optionally a kill setting which causes a heart-attack if the HT roll is failed by 5.


To try checking some of the numbers, I'm trying to throw together a 3G3 ultratech wristwatch stunner; I'm guessing TL19, a laser DV of 1 needing 6.8 J, a "fixed mount" instead of a pistol grip, and with the mass x0.5 and stunner options; that seems to end up with a mass of 43.46 x 1.1 x 0.5 x 1.1 = 26.29 grams (0.058 lbs) (plus batteries, at 60% efficiency), cost 660.73 Cr, emitter length 2.7 cm, and 3G3 weapon stats of Range Class 1/1, Inherent Accuracy 1, RoF 10/s, Bulk VS/1, AV 2, 1BP. But I could easily have gotten any or all of that wrong. Anyone care to point out any errors I've made? :)
From what I understand, you convert the DV to dice and then apply the stun damage from there.
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Old 09-10-2021, 10:13 AM   #33
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From what I understand, you convert the DV to dice and then apply the stun damage from there.
Things get a little complicated, since 3G3's conversions to GURPS are for 3e, and IIRC, GURPS tweaked things a little when they went to 4e.

But temporarily sticking to 3e, over on 3G3 page 83, the formula is: Average GURPS points of damage = 0.26 * (DV^1.12). So a DV of 9 is an average of 3.0 damage (or 0.87 d6), DV 27 is average 10.4 damage (2.98 d6), and DV 124 is average 57.5 damage (16.43 d6). ... Now what?
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Old 09-10-2021, 10:19 AM   #34
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Things get a little complicated, since 3G3's conversions to GURPS are for 3e, and IIRC, GURPS tweaked things a little when they went to 4e.

But temporarily sticking to 3e, over on 3G3 page 83, the formula is: Average GURPS points of damage = 0.26 * (DV^1.12). So a DV of 9 is an average of 3.0 damage (or 0.87 d6), DV 27 is average 10.4 damage (2.98 d6), and DV 124 is average 57.5 damage (16.43 d6). ... Now what?
If I remember my conversions right, you simply half the damage dice, more or less.
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Old 09-10-2021, 12:38 PM   #35
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If I remember my conversions right, you simply half the damage dice, more or less.
That's what you did with 3e electrolasers anyway.
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Old 09-10-2021, 02:21 PM   #36
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Finally dug up my 3e UltraTech, to see how it treats electrolasers. When set to non-lethal, instead of taking normal damage, take the damage that makes it through DR, halve it, and make a HT roll minus that halved number. For lethal setting, the damage past DR actually does normal damage; and after than, make a HT roll minus half the damage to check for a heart attack.

With that info, I'm pretty sure that I can work from a 3G3 electrolaser design and use it in GURPS. (I should still look up conversions from 3e to 4e GURPS damage for the lethal electrolaser, but I'm sure I have a copy of GURPS Update somewhere around here.)


I think the one point I'm still confuzzled on is a basic bit of 3G3 electrolaser design - once you've built yourself a carrier beam of whatever size, then what limits, if any, are there on how much zappage can be sent down that carrier beam to fry the unfortunate target? If a wristwatch-sized 3G3 electrolaser has a capacitor big enough to drop 40 kiloJoules all at once, could the watch-zapper actually send all those electrons to where they're supposed to go?
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Old 09-10-2021, 03:34 PM   #37
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I think the one point I'm still confuzzled on is a basic bit of 3G3 electrolaser design - once you've built yourself a carrier beam of whatever size, then what limits, if any, are there on how much zappage can be sent down that carrier beam to fry the unfortunate target? If a wristwatch-sized 3G3 electrolaser has a capacitor big enough to drop 40 kiloJoules all at once, could the watch-zapper actually send all those electrons to where they're supposed to go?
I suspect cranking the power up that much will cause the plasma channel to destabilize and short circuit, but for the most part the reason you don't run killing currents through electroshock weapons is because you aren't trying to kill people.
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Old 09-10-2021, 03:44 PM   #38
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I suspect cranking the power up that much will cause the plasma channel to destabilize and short circuit,
Okay, good; we've got a physical mechanism for capping damage. Now - how do we figure out what number to cap said damage at?


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but for the most part the reason you don't run killing currents through electroshock weapons is because you aren't trying to kill people.
Well, now, that all depends on what sort of people you happen to be aiming at, while you happen to have an electrolaser available to aim at them, now doesn't it? If someone is getting ready to pull the trigger of a Big Scary Gun they're swinging at you, and all you've got is your just-barely-passes-legal-muster Wristwatch Of Shocking People You Dislike, then cranking its dials to maximum could very well be a viable survival strategy.
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Old 09-10-2021, 03:47 PM   #39
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Okay, good; we've got a physical mechanism for capping damage. Now - how do we figure out what number to cap said damage at?
Realistically, trying to use an electrolaser at above its designed power will probably just fail, but I don't know what the G3G electrolaser design sequence looks like.
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Old 09-10-2021, 03:56 PM   #40
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Realistically, trying to use an electrolaser at above its designed power will probably just fail, but I don't know what the G3G electrolaser design sequence looks like.
Sidebar of G3G page 47 says "The usual laser DV is 1-3 ... The DV of a stun pulse is (Energy x .735)^.5. Example - If you send a 2,500J pulse down the beam, the DV would be 43. If you used 100J, the DV would be 9.", "A normal laser may be made into a stunner for a 10% increase in laser tube mass and overall weapon cost.", " ... a charge could power both the laser and stun pulse, according to a fixed or adjustable ratio."

So, apparently, you design a laser with a Damage Value as low as 1 (which would be around 6.8 Joules output (and 60% or less efficiency input); a DV 10 laser is around 68 J output), and add 10% to mass and cost; and if you want, can then set a dial for how much charge to send down the carrier beam, with an example implying 2,500 J of electrons is appropriate.
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