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Old 02-08-2014, 09:08 AM   #1
GWJ
 
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Default When berserk adv. ends?

If PC with active Berserk will kill all his foes, and he will failure self-control check, he must attack bystanders or allies. And if there is nobody nearby?

Most obvious assumption for me, is that berserk ends if there is nobody in X yards range. What should be this range?


And little of munchkin-proofing. If above, rest of players can safely hide or buy for himself cloaks of invisibility. PC don't see anybody, so berserk rage ends, and rest of team can safely turn visible. How deal with it?

And one more question - how I can represent chance that foe hit the shield carried by a berserker? I know, there's no active defenses. But Defense Bonus should apply, this is big piece of wood, IMO there should be any chance to protect even if there is no active defense...
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Old 02-08-2014, 09:12 AM   #2
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Default Re: When berserk adv. ends?

1. He'll rampage around for a while to look for something to kill, eventually getting tired.

2. Roll for hit location on wild swings. If it comes up shield arm, the attack hit the shield.
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Old 02-08-2014, 09:23 AM   #3
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Default Re: When berserk adv. ends?

1. How are FP losts for running in berserk? Like sprinting? :D In random direction?

2. And if foe deliberately aiming in the eg., right arm or chest, not in random location?
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Old 02-08-2014, 09:32 AM   #4
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Default Re: When berserk adv. ends?

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Originally Posted by GWJ View Post
Most obvious assumption for me, is that berserk ends if there is nobody in X yards range. What should be this range?
I wouldn't say there's a specific range, but a matter of who can easily be seen (or, perhaps, otherwise detected). On a wide open field, he might see somebody half a mile away and try to chase them down. In a thick forest, somebody might be 50 yards away and unseen.

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And little of munchkin-proofing. If above, rest of players can safely hide or buy for himself cloaks of invisibility. PC don't see anybody, so berserk rage ends, and rest of team can safely turn visible. How deal with it?
If this bothers, state that because he knows they're there, he'll keep trying to attack them, even though they're invisible. He probably won't be very good at it, but he'll try.

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And one more question - how I can represent chance that foe hit the shield carried by a berserker? I know, there's no active defenses. But Defense Bonus should apply, this is big piece of wood, IMO there should be any chance to protect even if there is no active defense...
This is probably a matter for the "shields as cover" optional rule.
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Old 02-08-2014, 09:42 AM   #5
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Default Re: When berserk adv. ends?

For when it ends, I'd say if nobody is visible (or otherwise known to be in the area) to the berserker, he gets an additional Self-Control check every minute or so. Until he succeeds, he rages around, looking for something to kill.

As for shields, take a look at this thread, particularly these two Kromm posts. The former might work, but the latter may well be a better choice for the rampaging berserker (and for characters who attack All Out in general).
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Old 02-08-2014, 09:52 AM   #6
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Default Re: When berserk adv. ends?

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And little of munchkin-proofing. If above, rest of players can safely hide or buy for himself cloaks of invisibility. PC don't see anybody, so berserk rage ends, and rest of team can safely turn visible. How deal with it?
Warn the players that if they do this, you'll start sending permanently invisible foes after the berserker, and he'll start rampaging against the party whenever he's attacked by them and go berserk.

Alternately, hiding from a berserker is a perfectly valid tactic, and especially if the invisibility cloaks have limited daily uses, then the PCs are expending resources to minimize the consequence of berserk. That shouldn't bother you.
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Old 02-08-2014, 10:24 AM   #7
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Default Re: When berserk adv. ends?

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1. How are FP losts for running in berserk? Like sprinting? :D In random direction?

2. And if foe deliberately aiming in the eg., right arm or chest, not in random location?
If the foe is competent enough to make called shots and succeed in the rolls, the berzerker takes the hit -- including any multiples for called shots to vitals and such.

Remember, Berzerk is a 10-point Disadvantage; it is not an Advantage. Against a low-skilled opponent, or a bunch of farmers, a berzerker is a scary guy (or gal).

However, against a skilled opponent, the berzerker usually dies in no more than about four rounds.

Round 1: Skilled opponent with Broadsword-14 makes a called-strike swing to the weapon-arm (-2). Berzerker has no defense, so the effective skill of the attacker is 12 -- that gives a hit probability of 74.1 percent.

A ST12 swordsman, which wouldn't be at all unusual, has a base damage for swings of 1d+2. A basic broadsword gives SW+1, so that raises the damage to 1d+3 (or 2d-1, if you use the dice conversion on p. 269, which I thought should have been retained from 3rd Edition; GURPS is about the bell-curve).

If the skilled opponent rolls a three or better on the 1d method, there's a very real probability that the berzerker loses his hand -- and his weapon, along with it. After that, he's berzerkly attacking with a bloody stump, until he bleeds out.

The good news is that, because he's a berzerker, he doesn't make health rolls.

That means, on the skilled opponent's next swing, he makes an all-out, determined attack to the berzerker's neck. Base skill of 14, plus 4 for the all-out determined, gives a base hit probability of 18. Subtract 5 for the neck shot, and the skilled opponent rolls against a 13 -- which gives odds of 83.8 percent.

Cutting damage against the neck is doubled, so the berzerker very likely dies that round.

All of this is mitigated, to some extent, by the presence of heavy armor or magical protections, of course. However, the fundamental problem remains. The berzerker cannot defend himself, and that means a skilled opponent who can defend himself will probably win, unless the berzerker can get in a solid hit, first.

That's why Berzerk is a 10-point disadvantage. It's supposed to cause problems for the character who has it. In combat against a skilled opponent who keeps a cool head, the berzerker may do some damage, but will almost certainly lose the fight -- and die.
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Old 02-08-2014, 11:46 AM   #8
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Default Re: When berserk adv. ends?

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Originally Posted by GWJ View Post
If PC with active Berserk will kill all his foes, and he will failure self-control check, he must attack bystanders or allies. And if there is nobody nearby?

Most obvious assumption for me, is that berserk ends if there is nobody in X yards range. What should be this range?
As far as the berserker can sense in any way whatsoever. It's not a good choice to take it with a cosmic Sense of Perception. Though having the berserker smash up the scenery until he runs out fatigue, charging the Fighting a Battle cost every 2 minutes, seems like an equally reasonable option.

Quote:
And little of munchkin-proofing. If above, rest of players can safely hide or buy for himself cloaks of invisibility. PC don't see anybody, so berserk rage ends, and rest of team can safely turn visible. How deal with it?
This seems OK to me, invisibility will cost something. Of course if they were involved in the fight, the berserker knows there are invisible fighters here somewhere, and really shouldn't snap out of it just because he can't see them.

Quote:
And one more question - how I can represent chance that foe hit the shield carried by a berserker? I know, there's no active defenses. But Defense Bonus should apply, this is big piece of wood, IMO there should be any chance to protect even if there is no active defense...
Melee attackers can surely avoid it unless they are aiming at arm he's strapped it to. Effectively, it's a piece of armor for his arm.
For missile fire, a large enough shield might count as partial cover. But it's also probably encumbering enough a berserker ought to *throw it away* more or less reflexively.

In general, it shouldn't offer much worthwhile protection, that's why All Out Attacks are dangerous. Characters trying to circumvent that and make them safely deserve some pretty serious penalties to clue them in to why this isn't a tactic everybody uses already.
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Old 02-08-2014, 12:02 PM   #9
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Default Re: When berserk adv. ends?

I wonder what Berserk would be worth if you could defend-as-if-stunned, i.e. at -4.
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Old 02-08-2014, 07:13 PM   #10
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Default Re: When berserk adv. ends?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tshiggins View Post
Remember, Berzerk is a 10-point Disadvantage; it is not an Advantage. Against a low-skilled opponent, or a bunch of farmers, a berzerker is a scary guy (or gal).
I believe that Beserk is a -15 point Disadvantage

Quote:
Originally Posted by tshiggins View Post
Round 1: Skilled opponent with Broadsword-14 makes a called-strike swing to the weapon-arm (-2). Berzerker has no defense, so the effective skill of the attacker is 12 -- that gives a hit probability of 74.1 percent.

A ST12 swordsman, which wouldn't be at all unusual, has a base damage for swings of 1d+2. A basic broadsword gives SW+1, so that raises the damage to 1d+3 (or 2d-1, if you use the dice conversion on p. 269, which I thought should have been retained from 3rd Edition; GURPS is about the bell-curve).

If the skilled opponent rolls a three or better on the 1d method, there's a very real probability that the berzerker loses his hand -- and his weapon, along with it. After that, he's berzerkly attacking with a bloody stump, until he bleeds out..
Earlier you said Arm and subtracted the location penalty for that location, but when it comes to assessing damage you say Hand (which is harder to hit). Assuming that 1) our Berserk isn't weaker than the person attacking a 1d+3 is unlikely to sever his arm, the arm will be crippled.
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