[Social Engineering] Charisma treated inconsistently with BIO/Basic

[Rocket Man]

Originally Posted by Dammann

It seems to me that there are probably a lot of cases where Charisma and the ability to appeal to people through some specific media are different. I'll bet that most of us have friends who we find fun and charming who dread public speaking.

Actually, my "charming" friends tend to enjoy charming others. In cases as you describe, I'd call it Charisma with no points put into Public Speaking and probably a quirk-level Shyness.

Or maybe some of us express ourselves clearly and persuasively through our writing, but in speech, are less able to sway other people to our way of thinking.

High-level Writing skill, possibly enhanced by a Talent, but without Charisma per se.

Some celebrities are very magnetic onscreen, but in person they can be cold, oblivious to social cues, or so entitled as to be indifferent to the response they get from people they meet.

High-level Performance skill (probably backed by both Talent and Appearance), and again, without Charisma, or with fewer levels than it seems.


To go back to your first point -- yes, Charisma and the ability to be appealing via a specific channel of interaction can be very different.

[Kromm]

Yes, active skill use and passive reaction rolls are not equivalent. They represent two different processes that can lead to someone forming an opinion about someone else. It isn't required that every option and caveat that applies to one process have a mirror image for the other. For instance, active skill use is typically resisted by Will, while reactions just happen. Charisma falls into this boat, in that it isn't symmetric between skill use and reaction rolls. It applies to all uses of particular skills (like Public Speaking) but not to all reaction rolls (only to those where people can see and hear you, and you can see and hear them). The issue of the written word is beside the point, as that has always been a matter of a Writing skill roll, and Writing has never listed Charisma as a modifier.

[Figleaf23]

Since I now have the opportunity, for the record, I reject the characterizations of my comments as being denigratory. I expressed a speculation about what led to a rule that appears to me illogical and inconsistent. Taking that speculation as a generalized attack on someone's professionalism is an over-reaction.

[ULFGARD]

In the same vein, I have a question about "anti-charisma" -- i.e., negative reaction in the same circumstances as charisma... We've probably all run across people like this who for no particular reason just seem to rub everyone the wrong way. Am I missing some good disadvantages for this? (I've only just arrived at the Reaction Rolls and Modifiers section.)

[PK]

Originally Posted by ULFGARD

In the same vein, I have a question about "anti-charisma" -- i.e., negative reaction in the same circumstances as charisma... We've probably all run across people like this who for no particular reason just seem to rub everyone the wrong way. Am I missing some good disadvantages for this? (I've only just arrived at the Reaction Rolls and Modifiers section.)

Odious Personal Habits are the usual way to handle that. You can have a vague OPH -- "Rubs everyone the wrong way" is a bit boring, but valid.

[Figleaf23]

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

... "Rubs everyone the wrong way" is a bit boring, but valid.

Oh, so now I'm boring too?

;-)

[Kuroshima]

Also, there's something you are disregarding, when comparing Scent Based Charisma from Biotech to Social Engineering, is that I can't see it giving a bonus to the skills it normally gives a bonus to, not unless you're present when they read the speech (or have canned smell). This is implicit in the fact that it's scent based. Basically, you're trading a bonus to the skills when direct interpersonal interaction is not possible for the removal of the requirement of being seen and heard.

[Refplace]

Interesting if somewhat heated thread. However I am glad for it here as it clarified what really should have been obvious.
I reread the entry for Charisma about a page or so in, before getting to the Kromm re posting part of it in fact. It clearly states the reaction bonus requires interaction and then goes on to say that it also gives a bonus to certain skills.
I have read and used Chariisma many times from 1st edition and and never really thought about the difference. But in hindsight if your looking at it for a TV or Movie actor or even politician it clearly states the bonus to skill vs. the reaction bonus.
Of course it hasn't ever come up in a game that I can recall. Every use I can think of was either a bonus to a public speaking or lecture skill or preforming in front of a smal live audience (just gave skill bonus usually but sometimes reaction bonus) or actual interaction where we did either skill or reaction bonus.

But I like the difference (not even clarified just sort of BOLDED or pointed out) and am glad that Charisma was given more detail in its write up in SE (based on RPKs post above as I have not bought my copy yet).

Also scent based gives me the idea (I am sure not original) of modifying Appearance that way for someone with Phermone control or something.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

Odious Personal Habits are the usual way to handle that. You can have a vague OPH -- "Rubs everyone the wrong way" is a bit boring, but valid.

My girlfriend has something like that. I'm completely blind to it, but then again I'm a social idiot bordering on asperger's. It's downright freaky, how anyone in positions of power that don't judge based purely on logical verifiable evidence will judge her in the worst possible light.
It might fit an opposite to pitiable or honest face though.

[Flyndaran]

How about those of us so blind to social interaction that charisma rubs us the wrong way if we notice it at all?