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Old 05-30-2022, 04:17 AM   #71
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Default Re: GURPS Racism

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Originally Posted by Rupert View Post
It was the standard version of Eidetic Memory, and it was effectively mandatory for characters built around mental skills except in low-point value campaigns.
Forgot about that. I remember the very first version of Classic Eidetic Memory was insanely broken. Can't remember if it was pricing or if was that doubling (quadruple for level 2) of points for IQ skills applied to spells.

Of course Supers came along and broke so many things that it wasn't until 4e that things got fixed.
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Old 05-30-2022, 04:46 AM   #72
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Default Re: GURPS Racism

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Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
Even then the Racial templates are particular, the 150 point Vampire gets you a "Bram Stoker" vampire, somebody like Dracula. But not Fred Saberhagen's Dracula from An Old Friend of the Family". It also doesn't get you an Anne Rice vampire; or Vampire LeStat, the Vampire horrified by mankind; or a folklore vampire. The Dwarf template will get you something that most players at the table will nod and say, "Yeah, that's a dwarf", but it won't get them to say, "Hey! It's Dopey from Snow White!" Or Doc, for that matter.

In short, you seem to be proceeding from false assumptions about the intent of Racial templates, in particular, but probably for Character templates, in general.
Well said. Look at all the variations of "elf" people have come up with:

Elf, Aquatic [61]
Elf (Dark Sun) [62]
Elf (Ptolus) [39]
Elf, Gray [55]
Elf, Harrow [-2]
Elf, High (Serenae) [30]
Elf, Jungle [20]
Elf, Wild [45]
Elf, Wood [42]
Elf, Wood (Serenae) [30]

And that is only part of the picture. Dwarf (GURPS Fantasy) and Dwarf (Yrth) are both [35] but how they are built is very different.
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Old 05-30-2022, 07:02 AM   #73
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Default Re: GURPS Racism

Halfling Racial Template, 0 points

Attributes and Secondary Characteristics: ST-3 (-30 points), DX+1 (20 points), HT+1 (10 points), SM-2, HP+1 (2 points), Basic Move -1 (-5 points).

Advantages and Perks: Brotherhood: Halflings (1 point), Halfling Marksmanship 2 (+1/level to all handheld ranged weapon and muscle-powered attacks; no reaction bonus or Alternative Benefit; 5/level; may buy up to a maximum of 4 at character creation) (10 points), Honest Face (1 point), Silence 2 (10 points), Tough Feet (1 point).

Disadvantages and Quirks: Gluttony (12) (-5 points), Increased Consumption 1 (6 meals/day) (-10 points), Kleptomania (16; also called “Borrower” or “Magpie”) (-5 points).

Longevity is a very common Halfling trait.

Halflings look like small, somewhat stocky humans and are usually around 3’ tall and rarely taller than 3’6”. They share human languages and cultures (modified slightly by racial differences), though their racial Brotherhood makes Halfling societies very peaceful, virtually crime-free, cooperative and anarchic. Halflings are typically both Brave and Fearless. Those living among humans are likely to have high Stealth, at least a point in Disguise (Human), one or more points in the Giant Weapons perk (which also counts for most unspecialized tools), and Unfazed by Size. Halflings cannot usually pass for human upon close inspection, but on worlds where Halflings are completely unknown, add Passing Appearance: Human Child or Little Person (1 point) and, for mature Halflings, Unnatural Features 1: Dwarfish Appearance (-1 points).

Note: Halflings use given names adapted from their own and local cultures along with traditional Halfling surnames, which are usually descriptive portmanteaus or compounds. Halflings often earn epithets – which one might use when introducing him- or herself – usually for a notable deed or life event or outstanding characteristic, and these can occasionally evolve into new surnames, especially if one becomes widely known by his or her epithet.
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Old 05-31-2022, 09:23 AM   #74
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Default Re: GURPS Racism

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Originally Posted by Jhanis View Post
Well of course a basic elf will be faster than a basic dwarf. Nothing racist about that, it's biology. Dwarves have literally smaller legs and are heavier, so they can't move as fast as the lighter and long-legged elves. It's like asking why a Dwarf would have a lower centre of gravity, that's just how physics works. lol
GURPS isn't a physics simulator. If the GM says dwarves are faster than elves in this setting, that's a statement of fact; they don't need to justify it or tweak the fundamental constants of the universe to make it true. This is why there's no Generic Universal Racial Template Supplement—nobody but the GM can dictate how elves or vampires work in the setting they're trying to create.

(I can't help but note that this is word for word the kind of argument you see in the wild to justify racist beliefs—just replace "elf" with "white person", "dwarf" with "black person" and "faster" with "cleverer", and garnish with a statistical analysis of IQ test results broken down by race. It's a huge pitfall in the fantasy genre going back at least as far as Tolkien.)

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Originally Posted by Jhanis View Post
I could, but then we are going way off the edge of the page and making new advantages and disadvantages, then determining their point value. It would take lots of trial and error, through just playing it, to figure out the flaws and exploits, then iron them out.
Making new advantages and disadvantages is the GM's bread and butter. GURPS is a rule-zero game (it's explicit on p. B486) and there's even some guidelines for doing so on pp. B117–118. Of note: if everyone in the setting has a prehensile tail, then it's part of the default template and doesn't cost any points. If, on the other hand, you don't have a prehensile tail in such a setting, you'd take a disadvantage which gives back the points you implicitly aren't spending on a prehensile tail to spend on something else.
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Old 05-31-2022, 10:17 AM   #75
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Default Re: GURPS Racism

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Originally Posted by Ketsuban View Post
GURPS isn't a physics simulator. If the GM says dwarves are faster than elves in this setting, that's a statement of fact; they don't need to justify it or tweak the fundamental constants of the universe to make it true. This is why there's no Generic Universal Racial Template Supplement—nobody but the GM can dictate how elves or vampires work in the setting they're trying to create.
On the other hand, if you want to do biomechanics simulation, GURPS Template Toolkit 2 has guidelines in Chapter 2. In fact it has two different sets of guidelines: one set for approximate realism (based on the square-cube law, which isn't an exact fit to biomechanical scaling but will get you within an order of magnitude for organisms that a human being might interact with) and one for the cinematic treatment where the incredible shrinking man and the fifty-foot woman both move like human beings and have the proportionate strength of a human.
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Old 05-31-2022, 08:22 PM   #76
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Default Re: GURPS Racial Templates

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Originally Posted by tshiggins View Post
ElfQuest, by Wendy and Richard Pini
http://elfquest.com/

The story is great; the setting is superb; and the elves are fun -- and very much not Tolkien elves.
For that matter, you'd need at least three "elf" templates for ElfQuest elves, IIRC the official ttrpg had 5-6.
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Originally Posted by SilvercatMoonpaw View Post
Or you can redefine what constitutes a "human" in your setting. Pretend the baseline 0-point race represents something else.
n.
There's one fantasy series I've read where people don't consider anyone who hasn't got an animal Alternate Form to be human; non-shapeshifters are soulless monsters by their reckoning.
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Old 06-02-2022, 09:13 PM   #77
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Default Re: GURPS Racial Templates

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What the crap?! That means humans are instantly going to be immediately better in any skills because they didn't need to waste points just creating their character that is average for the race. Humans start at 0 but Dwarves start at -35? How is that fair and balanced?
It's fair and balanced because a dwarf will start with the same amount of points for spending on skills as a human with the same attributes and advantages does. Any two characters with the same abilities will have the same cost regardless of their race.

If the dwarf template includes attributes that are higher than you want for your character, sell them off: the stat values in templates are racial norms, not racial minimums. If it includes advantages that you don't want your character to have, don't play a dwarf, or generate a disabled dwarf.

Everything costs what it costs regardless of race, and if you don't want it, don't buy it.
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Old 06-02-2022, 09:49 PM   #78
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Default Re: GURPS Racism

Dwarf Racial Template, 0 points

Attribute Modifiers: ST +1 [10]; HT +1 [10].

Secondary Characteristic Modifiers: Basic Move -1 [-5]; SM -1; Will +1 [5].

Advantages: Alcohol Tolerance [1]; Artificer 1 [10]; Lifting ST +2 [6]; Night Vision 5 [5].

Disadvantages: Chummy [-5]; Greed (15) [-7]; Intolerance (Elves) [-5]; Phobia (Oceans) (15) [-5]; Selfish (12) [-5]; Sense of Duty (Dwarves) [-15].
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