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Old 06-26-2021, 09:12 PM   #11
Plane
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Re: Help with TK limitation

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Originally Posted by mr beer View Post
Sounds like Gadget Limitations: Breakable, Size, Can Be Stolen, Unique p 116 to 117.
Isn't that more "I need to hold a magic ball to give me telekinetic powers" rather than "I don't need to hold the ball but can only use TK on the ball"

Powers 111 for example lists Magnetic as seeing "Specific" on P112 which is -50% for ANY ferrous metal objects, so "steel only" is a step narrower, and "only these specific steel things" would be narrower steel.

80% wouldn't seem out of hand
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Old 06-26-2021, 10:45 PM   #12
Proteus
 
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Default Re: Help with TK limitation

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Originally Posted by Plane View Post
Isn't that more "I need to hold a magic ball to give me telekinetic powers" rather than "I don't need to hold the ball but can only use TK on the ball"
But, for example, can you TK-fly the spheres under a platform and then use them to lift the platform and its contents? Then you are, indeed, exerting your TK through the spheres as gadgets.
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Old 06-26-2021, 11:33 PM   #13
The Benj
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Default Re: Help with TK limitation

-80% seems quite reasonable.
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Old 06-27-2021, 02:55 PM   #14
Plane
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Re: Help with TK limitation

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Originally Posted by Proteus View Post
can you TK-fly the spheres under a platform and then use them to lift the platform and its contents?
That's something I think you can already do. Magneto for example I think balances atop metal inserts in his shoes that he lifts, maybe using the metal in his helmet to help maintain balance with less muscular effort.

Psionic Powers 17 sort of explores this contrast with the "Cannot Punch" limitation where your TK can only act through moving objects. So you could lift a club and use it to club someone, but not just use thing air to hit someone.

I wondered if the -10% for "Cannot Punch" was built into the -50% Magnetic listed on B92 since that should also prevent "I invisibly punch him in the face" tactics.

I guess it's allowing for something like "I invisibly TK-punch the metal wall" which is largely useless for low levels of TK due to the DR metal has. But I guess technically that would mean at -60% to damage a metal wall you'd have to lift another metal object and throw it against the metal wall.

This does raise questions with Cannot Affect Self -20% too (also from PP17)...

In theory a person with Magnetic -50% should be able to lift themself so long as they are made out of metal, but not while they are made out of flesh, so I guess you could do this:

Magnetic -50%
Cannot Punch -10%
Cannot Lift Self -20%
This gives you -80% and while it prevents you from directly impacting metal things, allows you to lift metal things and use them to lift/damage other stuff.

An obvious question though is how that works by proxy.

Like if I had TK only capable of moving wood, I can't lift myself directly unless I'm made of wood (so I might as well take Cannot Lift Self to save points) but what happens if I straddle a wooden broomstick and then TK lift that broom?

I think it should be a matter of balancing and DX : lifting yourself directly should always be the most stable and safe because you can target your center of gravity so you can't fall over.

You can definitely fall off a TK-lifted broomstick though, so you'd have to rely on skill or safety gear to secure your flight.

You can go beyond -80% by doing further Accessibility/Specific requirements to offset enhancements you might want to take on TK such as Reliable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Proteus View Post
Then you are, indeed, exerting your TK through the spheres as gadgets.
Gadgets are I believe objects that you must have on your person for an ability to work. If it doesn't have "Can Be Stolen" then they can't be taken off your person at all, but then it must have 'Can Be Destroyed' to qualify.

A destroyable magic hat that grants magery I just assume is meant to be kept on your person. If you don't even need to wear the hat to use the magery it grants you, you could just leave your magic hat back in your magic fortress under close guard. That's a lot more flexibility than I recall every example of Gadget having.

Basically if it lacks "Can Be Stolen" then I would figure the "Can't Be Stolen" default is because it's part of you, meaning it can't be left somewhere else.

Of course there could be an exception with soething like Independent Body Parts. If I have an unremovable destroyable magic ring then in theory I could detach just my hand and leave that hand behind in the magic fortress so that people can't destroy the ring.

It's a pretty decent trick, you could even take "can be stolen" on it: you're still technically 'wearing' the ring (part of you is, the independent hand) even if the part of you out adventuring is not connected to the part of you wearing it.
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Old 06-27-2021, 04:30 PM   #15
DangerousThing
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Default Re: Help with TK limitation

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Originally Posted by Proteus View Post
But, for example, can you TK-fly the spheres under a platform and then use them to lift the platform and its contents? Then you are, indeed, exerting your TK through the spheres as gadgets.
Yes, that should be possible. You could play chess by pushing the pieces, if you had a rather oversized chess set.

You could use them to hold meat to cook it over a fire.

Basically, you can do anything you want to with 4" diameter steel balls with possible pointy/cutting things attached to them.
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