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Old 07-24-2015, 12:53 AM   #1
lugaid
 
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Default The Last Gasp and Hiking

Assuming that one wanted to use both the long-term fatigue rules from The Last Gasp and also the hiking rules, it seems like the latter's fatigue use isn't well balanced to the rules in the former. For instance, in the original hiking fatigue rules (p. B426), a 5-hour stretch of hiking with light encumbrance would cost 10FP. In that system, you'd then rest for 100 minutes to recover those and then march for another 5 hours. (As an aside, that seems like an excessive rest there, since a person should probably be good to go after maybe a half hour of resting, but at least it was possible, and within an order of magnitude or so.) In The Last Gasp, though, that same 10FP would require a total of 50 hours to recover (assuming starting Fatigue of 10). That doesn't seem at all reasonable for 5 hours of walking while carrying less than 40 lbs (at ST10).

What would be some reasonable ideas for reconciling these two systems?
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Old 07-24-2015, 01:05 AM   #2
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Default Re: The Last Gasp and Hiking

Pacing oneself is about knowing how to use AP in such a way as to never dip into Fatigue proper.
Healthy Gurps level characters should be able to hike at No Encumbrance all day without harm.
Maybe an entire day or some other set time of hiking may result in loss of 1 Ft for light, 2 for medium, etc.
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Old 07-24-2015, 04:36 AM   #3
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Default Re: The Last Gasp and Hiking

On hiking and rest times:
When in army back in late 1980s we did three types of foot movement:
Quick marches with minimal load(Just tracksuit+weapon Approx 6kg total: In GURPS terms likely no loead):It was more running than hiking.. and you were definitely tired after it but you could cover 25km between breakfast and lunch..

And then we had three types of normal marching:
With just battle gear(uniform+helmet+boots+webbing+weapon+extra ammo+eating utensils+water+overcoat for a total of about 13kg, in GURPS terms likely light load): The movement speed was at a brisk walking pace and the official rule was that 50 minutes of marching and 10 minutes break with a 30 minute food break instead every 4 hours. After the initial conditioning period, this thing was not tiresome in any real way, though you might still have things like blisters and such, but other than that you could repeat it at will.

With full pack (above and the backpack with things like second uniform, sleeping bag, several changes of underwear and more.. about 18-25kg more depending of if it was summer or winter, so in GURPS teems likely heavy load). The movement speed was noticeably slower, more like a slow walk. The official rule was the same as previously(50+10 minutes) but in practice you did get tired from this and two four hour periods was about maximum as you were pretty tired at time.

With everything... I mean everything that is platoon equipment divided between the people in the platoon.. Meaning we had things like anti-tank mines, heavy machine guns, tents+related gear, Anti-tank launchers and more.. In practice everyone got 10-20kg more over the full pack load. I do not know what the rest rules were, but the movement speed was normally really really slow.. and you did still get tired, part of it is that a lot of that extra gear had to be carried uncomfortably(much of it was big and bulky).

(Though once when participating in the national infantry skills competition, our company got a boatload of points by doing the last in less than half the time of the second ranking team over rough ground and 5 km distance.. as we had loads of district level, several national and couple international level athletes serving and we basically though about the load distribution, had a lot of people who in civilian life did heavy training(like the guy who ran those 5 kilometers carrying 80+kgs in his hands in addition to his full pack) and had people like the second ranked national orienteering guy pick the route(and do scouting of routes by running ahead in lighter pack) and such.. we were thus basically able to job the 5 kilometers with that load and pick the best route and such.. All the other teams took more like the normal heavy marching approach... basically our team was the handpicked platoon with best individuals from all the platoons in an unofficial "sports company".)
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Old 07-24-2015, 07:45 AM   #4
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Default Re: The Last Gasp and Hiking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyndaran View Post
Pacing oneself is about knowing how to use AP in such a way as to never dip into Fatigue proper.
Yes - at least, not due to exertion.

Quote:
Healthy Gurps level characters should be able to hike at No Encumbrance all day without harm.
Probably a good assumption.


The running/movement rules from TLG should not be extrapolated to long distance movement on a non-combat scale just yet. I had a system that I was looking to do, but it was broken, so it was cut rather than delay publication.
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Old 07-25-2015, 12:16 AM   #5
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Default Re: The Last Gasp and Hiking

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Originally Posted by Flyndaran View Post
Healthy Gurps level characters should be able to hike at No Encumbrance all day without harm.
A lot of that depends on what you think is a 'GURPS level character'. Someone not currently accustomed to hiking can go a full day, but they're going to feel pretty terrible the next day, and things like blisters are pretty likely.
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Old 07-25-2015, 02:35 AM   #6
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Default Re: The Last Gasp and Hiking

Some good suggestions so far. Keep them coming!

One possible idea I was thinking of today would be to assess fatigue every two hours instead of every one (probably spread out, so that 2FP in two hours would assess 1FP each hour), and change the recovery rates so that Mild Fatigue recovers at (120 mins/Starting FP), Severe Fatigue at (20 hours/Starting FP), and Deep Fatigue at (240 hours/Starting FP). That would make a five hour march assess a total of (2.5x2=) 5FP to someone marching with Light Encumbrance, and recovery would take (12 mins x 5=) 60 minutes for someone with starting 10FP. It also would mean that using abilities assessed in FP wouldn't be as crippling to use as they tend to be in TLG. Not sure that would work overall, though.
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Old 07-25-2015, 07:01 PM   #7
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Default Re: The Last Gasp and Hiking

See High-Tech p.69 for rules on ill-fitting boots when hiking.
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Old 07-25-2015, 07:05 PM   #8
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Default Re: The Last Gasp and Hiking

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See High-Tech p.69 for rules on ill-fitting boots when hiking.
And High tech 54 for fitting a pack so you do not get pain.
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Old 07-25-2015, 03:19 AM   #9
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Default Re: The Last Gasp and Hiking

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A lot of that depends on what you think is a 'GURPS level character'. Someone not currently accustomed to hiking can go a full day, but they're going to feel pretty terrible the next day, and things like blisters are pretty likely.
It would be dangerous for ANYONE I know to gurps hike all day. I think my mom may be able to though.
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Old 07-25-2015, 04:09 AM   #10
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Default Re: The Last Gasp and Hiking

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Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
A lot of that depends on what you think is a 'GURPS level character'. Someone not currently accustomed to hiking can go a full day, but they're going to feel pretty terrible the next day, and things like blisters are pretty likely.
Blisters are really best assessed as being caused by failed hiking skill rolls.
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