Leech, healing and HP-scaling

[Icelander]

Simple question; if I have 20 HP and I Leech 3 HPs from someone, do I heal 1 HP or 2*?

If it is 1 HP, I'm going to have to add some Regeneration to one of the templates in my campaign because otherwise, wounds inflicted on the opposition take literally forever to heal.

If it is 2 HP, on the other hand, I have a far more fundamental problem. In that case, two characters with 20+ HP and Leech with Accelerated Healing +25%** have discovered an Infinity Engine that produces more energy than you put in. They can heal each other without any limit by Leeching each other, healing 2 HP for every 1 HP that they drain.

*1 times HP/10 is equal to 2. If this scales in the same way as natural healing or Healing from spells, potions or the Healing Advantage, this would be the answer.
**This build, while much simplified, essentially describes characters in my campaign. So this troubling Infinity Engine logical conclusion would very much interfere with my gaming and not just exist in potentia without ever disturbing anyone's actual fun.

[Dinadon]

High HP and Healing is clear that all provided healing rates assume someone with 10 HP. Thus you should be scaling.

Accelerated Healing just means the threshold is lower, someone with 30HP would already be healing at a one to one rate. Someone with 40HP is laughing.

Instead it's probably easiest to ignore High HP and Healing for Leech so you don't have the issue with scaling.

[Langy]

Originally Posted by Icelander

If it is 2 HP, on the other hand, I have a far more fundamental problem. In that case, two characters with 20+ HP and Leech with Accelerated Healing +25%** have discovered an Infinity Engine that produces more energy than you put in. They can heal each other without any limit by Leeching each other, healing 2 HP for every 1 HP that they drain.

I'm pretty sure it's 2HP, as per every other method of healing.

The easiest fix I can come up with is to scale the leech effect by the amount of HP the character has in the same way you scale the healing effect. If the character has 20 HP, then you need to leech 2 HP per 2 HP that you heal. If the character has less than 20 HP, you need to leech 1 HP per 2 HP that you heal. If the character has 30 HP, you need to leech 3 HP per 2 HP that you heal, etc.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Dinadon

High HP and Healing is clear that all provided healing rates assume someone with 10 HP. Thus you should be scaling.

Accelerated Healing just means the threshold is lower, someone with 30HP would already be healing at a one to one rate. Someone with 40HP is laughing.

Instead it's probably easiest to ignore High HP and Healing for Leech so you don't have the issue with scaling.

Well, if the Leech has a pseudo-scientific explanation, like 'drains blood', it causes SoD problems when the blood from a tiny mouse is enough for the big bad monster to be at full HP again. So in that sense, scaling the HP gain but not the HP drain is going to cause problems.

On the other hand, if that is what the official rules say, I have to find a way to write up the ability in rules-legal terms. Well, at least enough so that GCA understands. ;)

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Langy

I'm pretty sure it's 2HP, as per every other method of healing.

The easiest fix I can come up with is to scale the leech effect by the amount of HP the character has in the same way you scale the healing effect. If the character has 20 HP, then you need to leech 2 HP per 2 HP that you heal. If the character has less than 20 HP, you need to leech 1 HP per 2 HP that you heal. If the character has 30 HP, you need to leech 3 HP per 2 HP that you heal, etc.

That fix is somewhat sensible, yes.

But it causes problems when it means that completely draining a small and insignificant creature is going to be as effective as completely draining a large and powerful one.

[Langy]

Originally Posted by Icelander

That fix is somewhat sensible, yes.

But it causes problems when it means that completely draining a small and insignificant creature is going to be as effective as completely draining a large and powerful one.

Yeah, it does. You could scale the leech even under 10 HP, too - require 2 HP of leech for 1 HP of healing at 5 HP, 3 HP of leech for 1 HP of healing at 3 HP, 5 HP of leech for 1 HP of healing at 2 HP, and 10 HP of leech for 1 HP of healing at 1 HP.

[Dinadon]

Originally Posted by Langy

The easiest fix I can come up with is to scale the leech effect by the amount of HP the character has in the same way you scale the healing effect. If the character has 20 HP, then you need to leech 2 HP per 2 HP that you heal. If the character has less than 20 HP, you need to leech 1 HP per 2 HP that you heal. If the character has 30 HP, you need to leech 3 HP per 2 HP that you heal, etc.

Or how about instead basing the amount you heal off the targets HP? Of course then everyone will want to leech things that have lots of HP.

[Fwibos]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Simple question; if I have 20 HP and I Leech 3 HPs from someone, do I heal 1 HP or 2*?
If it is 2 HP, on the other hand, I have a far more fundamental problem. In that case, two characters with 20+ HP and Leech with Accelerated Healing +25%** have discovered an Infinity Engine that produces more energy than you put in. They can heal each other without any limit by Leeching each other, healing 2 HP for every 1 HP that they drain.
.[/SIZE]

Well, this comes up in "another game with blood suckers" and is called the Hungarian wedding. It's considered a bad thing because of the addictive qualities in the blood -er, HP, that is drained.

It's a suggestion, not an absolute fix.

One possible idea is that any sort of "leech" cannot take from another "leech". The HP they have, even their own, is "dead", inert. It's not fresh, living sustenance,

Or it could be like thermodynamics. Too objects that have the same cold temperature cannot take thermal from energy from the other. They take it from the surrounding area. Or how water flows until level between locks.

This makes Leech not so much a power as a natural state, held closed by force of will, until opened, where it seeks to level off. The will of the leecher directs it, but because "leeches" are essentially bottonless, they can't drain from each other.

Imperfect, but I'm just spit-balling.

[Langy]

Originally Posted by Dinadon

Or how about instead basing the amount you heal off the targets HP? Of course then everyone will want to leech things that have lots of HP.

That's exactly what I was doing (except it also takes into account the character's HP).

[Bruno]

Two notes:

1) GCA doesn't know or care how the rules work in play - so if you rule one way or another for your game in a way that doesn't impact character points, you don't have to do anything in GCA :)

2) I'm pretty sure GURPS already considers leech a thoroughly supernatural advantage by default :)

I wouldn't base it on the targets HP by default, just the normal scaling for the user. A limitation to remove the HP scaling is basically the opposite of Accelerated Healing - you need to suck 6 HP to heal your normal 2 HP, which would return you to 1 HP/3 sucked. In your case, I'd make it required that if members of this particular species hit a HP breakpoint they're required to take enough of the limitation that it cancels out the HP multiple.

I'd suggest -20% per doubling of HP drain required.

EDIT: Make that -20% for doubling, -40% for tripling, etc. exponential growth is probably too punishing, also harder to match up for 30 HP, 50 60 and 70 HP, etc.

2.5) The fix for the infinite recursion loop is to not allow guys with high HP multiples to buy enough Accelerated healing that they surpass 1:1 after accounting for their HP multiple. And if they have 40, 50, or 60 HP, make them take the above limitation that worstens the healing ratio.