Custom Centaur Template and questions

[Phantasm]

I'm working on my fantasy setting's racial templates, making sure my math is right and tweaking appropriately. My centaur template is feeling incomplete.

Centaurs
103 points
Average Height: 7', (4' at the horse's shoulder).
Average Length: 7'.
Average Weight: 750 lbs.
Age of Maturity: 16 years.
Average Lifespan: 80 years.

Attribute Modifiers: ST +4 (Size, -10%) [36]; HT +2 [20].
Secondary Characteristic Adjustments: SM +1; Basic Move +2 [10].
Advantages: Claws (Hooves) [3]; Enhanced Move (Ground) 1/2 [10]; Extra Legs (4 Legs) [5]; Extra ST +4 (Lower Body Only, -40%; Size, -10%) [20].
Quirks: Personality Change (Wild Drunk) [-1].
Feature: Arms Sized for SM 0 [0].


A few questions for the hive mind:

1) What is the average HP of the centaur as it stands right now: 14 or 18?

2) What non-cultural* disadvantages would you add to it?




* I'm not using racial CFs, so centaurs can be found among the Viking-esque Northern Raiders, the European-esque western cities, the Mongol-esque horse-herding nomads, the Bedouin-esque desert nomads, the Chinese-esque Far East peoples, and the half dozen Amerindian-esque cultures of the New World.

[Anders]

What does "Lower Body Only" do?

And horses spend a lot of time eating, so if you by C.S. Lewis logic (the horse needs to be fed just as the man does) then Slow Eating would be appropriate.

Horizontal?

For reference, this is the template I threw together for a world that never got off the ground. (Uses KYOS):

Template
Attributes: ST +3 [30]; IQ -1 [-20]; HT +2 [20].
Characteristics: Size Modifier +1 [-10]; Lifting ST +3 [21]; Extra HP +8 [16]; Perception +1 [5].
Advantages: Damage Resistance 1 (Tough Skin, -40%) [3]; Enhanced Move 1 (Running) [20]; Four Legs [5]; Hooves [3].
Disadvantages: Loves wine [-1]; No nudity taboo [-1]; Overconfidence (12) [-5]; Phobia: Claustrophobia (12) [-15]; Stubbornness (12) [-5]; Won’t wear saddle, harness, yoke [-1].

[whswhs]

The 1/3 power of 750 is 9.09, and doubling that gives 18, so it's 18 HP.

[Phantasm]

Originally Posted by Anders

What does "Lower Body Only" do?

It represents that the horse body is stronger than the human torso. I'm thinking it *should* affect HP, but the main thing is the ability to carry/pull heavier loads with the horse muscles and kick stronger than they can hit with the arms.

And horses spend a lot of time eating, so if you by C.S. Lewis logic (the horse needs to be fed just as the man does) then Slow Eating would be appropriate.

While it's true that horses spend a lot of time eating, that's because as herbivores they're getting most of their energy and proteins from grasses and other plants. Centaurs are omnivorous.

Horizontal?

I'm not really sure about that one...

For reference, this is the template I threw together for a world that never got off the ground. (Uses KYOS):

Template
Attributes: ST +3 [30]; IQ -1 [-20]; HT +2 [20].
Characteristics: Size Modifier +1 [-10]; Lifting ST +3 [21]; Extra HP +8 [16]; Perception +1 [5].
Advantages: Damage Resistance 1 (Tough Skin, -40%) [3]; Enhanced Move 1 (Running) [20]; Four Legs [5]; Hooves [3].
Disadvantages: Loves wine [-1]; No nudity taboo [-1]; Overconfidence (12) [-5]; Phobia: Claustrophobia (12) [-15]; Stubbornness (12) [-5]; Won’t wear saddle, harness, yoke [-1].

How does that translate without KYOS? I don't normally use it.

[Anders]

That gives you BL 80 and Thrust/Swing 1d/1d+2 and 21 HP. I think that's what a destrier gets.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Phantasm

Feature: Arms Sized for SM 0 [0].

If you opt to interpret the text for the Short Limitation on Extra Arms as how to would apply to a character with SM+0, and then treat it as -1 to SM of the arms for larger ones (which is otherwise a missing option - an SM+6 creature can have arms appropriately scaled to its size, arms that are arbitrarily large for its size, or tiny nubs about the length of a human's forearms - no "arms that are short for its size, but longer than those of a human"), you can set this as a Disadvantage worth [-10]. And, really, it is a Disadvantage - without it, your centaur could strike with any Reach C weapon (including punches) at Reach C,1.

On that topic, I notice your template doesn't actually list the centaur's SM. Based on the Size Limitation on ST, I assume this is SM+1.

Originally Posted by Phantasm

1) What is the average HP of the centaur as it stands right now: 14 or 18?

This is one of my big hang-ups in terms of building centaurs (and similar creatures) - the fact that they're basically two creatures of different sizes, bolted together by connecting their torsos. In theory, the character should be as resilient as an SM+0 human with ST 14 (and thus HP 14) when the human half is targeted, but as resilient as an SM+1 horse (pony?) with ST 18 (and thus HP 18) when the horse half is targeted. There are also concerns related to targeting - the character should probably be treated as SM+0 when targeting the head, neck, arms, or upper torso, and SM+1 when targeting the lower torso or legs. It's a headache, and I don't have a solution I'm happy with (for my Oubliette setting, I've decided "screw it" and just made such hybrids actually be two different monsters that are joined together, but that's a bit eccentric and likely doesn't fit your setting).

That said, if you just want a single usable HP stat for the character, divorce HP from the "lower body" ST - instead of Extra ST +4 (Lower Body Only, -40%; Size, -10%) [20], buy Extra Lifting ST +4 (Lower Body Only, -40%; Size, -10%) [6] + Extra Striking ST +4 (Lower Body Only, -40%; Size, -10%) [10]. Then decide what overall HP you'd rather the centaur have and adjust HP as appropriate - if you opt to go with HP 16 (the average), just tack on Extra HP 2 [4].

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

Originally Posted by Phantasm

It represents that the horse body is stronger than the human torso. I'm thinking it *should* affect HP, but the main thing is the ability to carry/pull heavier loads with the horse muscles and kick stronger than they can hit with the arms.

Maybe make it a "Arm ST -X" disadvantage? (I'm not sure how much GURPS worries about torso and neck ST.)

Originally Posted by Varyon

This is one of my big hang-ups in terms of building centaurs (and similar creatures) - the fact that they're basically two creatures of different sizes, bolted together by connecting their torsos. In theory, the character should be as resilient as an SM+0 human with ST 14 (and thus HP 14) when the human half is targeted, but as resilient as an SM+1 horse (pony?) with ST 18 (and thus HP 18) when the horse half is targeted. There are also concerns related to targeting - the character should probably be treated as SM+0 when targeting the head, neck, arms, or upper torso, and SM+1 when targeting the lower torso or legs. It's a headache, and I don't have a solution I'm happy with (for my Oubliette setting, I've decided "screw it" and just made such hybrids actually be two different monsters that are joined together, but that's a bit eccentric and likely doesn't fit your setting).

I've thought about making the horse part of comparable size to the human part, so the centaur would either be all Size +0 (or Size +1?).

[Phantasm]

Originally Posted by SilvercatMoonpaw

Maybe make it a "Arm ST -X" disadvantage? (I'm not sure how much GURPS worries about torso and neck ST.)

Is that official somewhere (Template Toolkit 2, p'raps?), or a house ruled trait? I want to avoid house ruled traits as much as possible.

That said, I think I'll toy with Striking ST (Kicks Only) + Lifting ST (Accessibility: Lower Body Only) + Extra HP more.

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

Originally Posted by Phantasm

Is that official somewhere (Template Toolkit 2, p'raps?), or a house ruled trait? I want to avoid house ruled traits as much as possible.

Hm, the only thing I can find is the Weak limitation for Extra Arms. But it does say on the same page how to apply those to beings with only two arms: 1/10 the percentage amount in negative points.

So applying Weak once to each of two arms would be -25% + -25% = -50% > 50/10 = -5 points.

However, that gives each of the arms 1/2 of the ST for the rest of the body, which might be too much.

Beyond that, if you don't want to use houserules then what you've got is better than anything I can think up.

[ravenfish]

Per Basic Set p. 53, using the rules for applying the Extra Arm modifiers to default limbs, having both arms work at one half of your nominal strength is a -5 point disadvantage. This is ludicrously underpriced, of course, but the rule's there if you want it.

When building a Centaur template, I generally take Striking Strength (Kicks Only; -60% per powers) plus Lifting Strength plus Hit Points.