Compute! at a distance via Super Powers

[dataweaver]

So I shouldn’t voice my displeasure or seek out better ways to do things?

[Phantasm]

Originally Posted by dataweaver

To clarify: my complaint here is that the game mechanics are being divorced from the in-game concepts that they were originally designed to model, and are now being promoted to center-stage.

Originally Posted by jeff_wilson

You're about 11 years too late to change this direction for 4e, and a similar amount early for 5e.

Originally Posted by dataweaver

So I shouldn’t voice my displeasure or seek out better ways to do things?

Ease up, both of you, please. I don't think this thread is the right place on these forums to discuss the pros and cons of source-based verses effect-based game design; there's other threads for that. (If not, start one! We won't mind! :) ) We're looking for ways to help the OP model the ability he wants, not taking potshots at the direction of GURPS design.

We good?

[Refplace]

What do you think Projection is supposed to model here?
It seems based around an Astral Projection like ability where you send your mind out and leave your body behind and vulnerable.
In the Ops case it best applies to Clairsenirnece or Jumper (Cyberspace).
If you want to skip the limitation of leaving yoru body behind by using CM then what is left for it to model?
Clairsentience seems the most relavant and it has an enhancement that could be used to help price it. Not an exact fit but then i did not say it was, just something to look at.

[Phantasm]

Originally Posted by Refplace

What do you think Projection is supposed to model here?
It seems based around an Astral Projection like ability where you send your mind out and leave your body behind and vulnerable.
In the Ops case it best applies to Clairsenirnece or Jumper (Cyberspace).
If you want to skip the limitation of leaving yoru body behind by using CM then what is left for it to model?
Clairsentience seems the most relavant and it has an enhancement that could be used to help price it. Not an exact fit but then i did not say it was, just something to look at.

This is why I recommended Mind Reading/Mind Probe with the Cybernetic (+50%) enhancement. The OP mentioned he didn't want "net-running", but remote access hacking. I figured Mind Reading would be a good start for operating the computer from remote, scanning what's in the RAM, with Mind Probe for sifting through attached hard drives, flash drives, and other such persistent memory forms.

Now that I'm thinking of it, adding some form of Telecommunications to the power suite to send commands to the computer; can't remember off-hand whether Telesend can take the Cybernetic enhancement the way Mind Reading and Mind Probe can. It's a place to start, IMO.

[dataweaver]

I’m not suggesting skipping the bit about leaving your body behind; just the bit about it becoming unconscious when you project. As such, you don’t have the ability to, say, escape from a prison cell by jumping into cyberspace; your body still has to get out of the cell through more conventional means. There are still restrictions that you’re under even if you had the ability to project some but not all of your mental compartments; so a case can still be made for Projection to be a limitation under those conditions — just not necessarily as severe of a limitation as it would be if you lacked a Compartmentalized Mind.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by tbrock1031

This is why I recommended Mind Reading/Mind Probe with the Cybernetic (+50%) enhancement. The OP mentioned he didn't want "net-running", but remote access hacking. I figured Mind Reading would be a good start for operating the computer from remote, scanning what's in the RAM, with Mind Probe for sifting through attached hard drives, flash drives, and other such persistent memory forms.

Now that I'm thinking of it, adding some form of Telecommunications to the power suite to send commands to the computer; can't remember off-hand whether Telesend can take the Cybernetic enhancement the way Mind Reading and Mind Probe can. It's a place to start, IMO.

yeah I got that in your initial reply and I think its a good one, though he should take it as a limitation -50% Cybernetic only for what he describes.
Adding CM offsets the Concentrate vulnerability, not sure what Projection adds to the desired mix except a special effect.

telecommunication would be another good way to go. add Sensie and other enhancements and you can program it remotely. think there were some modifers for that in Pyramid. seen them somewhere though.

[otghand]

Thank you all for the suggestions. Right now I am looking at trying a gadget assisted based approach:

Mind Control (Cybernetic Only; Gadget/Breakable: DR 2 or less; Gadget/Breakable: Object is complex machine; Gadget/Breakable: Size -7 or -8; Increased Range: Line-of-Sight (Base range 100 yards); No Memory; Requires Computer Hacking Roll; Sensory; Superscience) [55]

Mind Probe (Cybernetic Only; Gadget/Breakable: DR 2 or less; Gadget/Breakable: Object is complex machine; Gadget/Breakable: Size -7 or -8; Increased Range: Line-of-Sight (Base range 100 yards); Invasive; Requires Computer Hacking Roll; Sensory; Superscience; Telecommunication) [31]

Mind Reading (Cybernetic Only; Gadget/Breakable: DR 2 or less; Gadget/Breakable: Object is complex machine; Gadget/Breakable: Size -7 or -8; Increased Range: Line-of-Sight (Base range 100 yards); Requires Computer Hacking Roll; Sensory; Superscience) [30]

Telecommunication (Radio) (Burst (10x); Gadget/Breakable: DR 2 or less; Gadget/Breakable: Object is complex machine; Gadget/Breakable: Size -7 or -8; Requires Electronics Operation Roll; Secure; Superscience; Video) [15]

To clarify my earlier post, I like the concept of net running, sending one mental compartment following a network path to hack its way into what needs hacking, but the idea in my head was the PC still has to actually be able to operate / program the target device by its own rules, knowing which bits to flip, what commands to inject, etc. In other words, the powers get the PC there, they don't tell it what or how to do anything once it is there.

Regarding projection, it seems like what is needed is perhaps a further enhancement to compartmentalized mind - severable projections.

[dataweaver]

Originally Posted by otghand

Regarding projection, it seems like what is needed is perhaps a further enhancement to compartmentalized mind - severable projections.

Hmm… maybe. You’re already paying 50 points per level for each additional mental compartment; by comparison, Duplication gives you a full body and mind for “only” 35 points. This combination of Compartmentalized Mind (severable compartments) and Jumper (Cyberspace; Projection) effectively lets Compartmentalized Mind double as Duplication, so long as the “duplicate” exists in cyberspace while the original remains in “meatspace”. I could see arguments for “severable compartments” costing anywhere from +10% (+5 points per compartment) to +60% (+30 points per compartment). I could also maybe see reducing the value of Projection from -25% to -10%, reflecting the fact that you can’t use it to leave a place, but you don’t render your original body insensate when you project.

If you want to go strictly by official rules without inventing new Enhancements, take Duplication as an Alternate Ability to Compartmentalized Mind, and Link Duplication to Jumper (Cyberspace). Mind you, this strikes me as a needlessly convoluted build.


You could also pair it up with Possession, with the second mental compartment’s “duplicate body” taking the form of whatever host it possesses — perfect for teleoperation, though in your case I’d apply a Limitation to Possession that requires you to have an appropriate vehicle operation skill (e.g., an Environmental Suit variant or Driving (Mecha) when “possessing” a humaniform cybershell, or Driving (automobile) when “possessing” a computerized car); lack of said skill requires skill rolls at default to perform basic tasks, and said skill replaces Acrobatics whenever you try to do something tricky with the host.

Of course, the simplest route would be to just house-rule that Compartmentalized Mind is severable at no extra charge; as I pointed out before, Duplication costs 35 points per level while Compartmentalized Mind costs 50 points per level, and you have to pay for whatever trait you use to Project; so it’s not exactly like you’re getting something for nothing.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by dataweaver

If you want to go strictly by official rules without inventing new Enhancements, take Duplication as an Alternate Ability to Compartmentalized Mind, and Link Duplication to Jumper (Cyberspace). Mind you, this strikes me as a needlessly convoluted build.

Of course, the simplest route would be to just house-rule that Compartmentalized Mind is severable at no extra charge; as I pointed out before, Duplication costs 35 points per level while Compartmentalized Mind costs 50 points per level, and you have to pay for whatever trait you use to Project; so it’s not exactly like you’re getting something for nothing.

I agree the AA Duplication build is too convoluted. I would go with Clairsentinece instead.
Severable is an interesting idea but it is a pretty big advantage to send your mind out away from your body to give you a separate and remote viewpoint.
Duplication has the drawback of physical risk to offset its cost.

If I were to allow Severable I would consider pricing it using At range for +50% but Clairsentience is a better fit I think. And its RAW.

[Phantasm]

Originally Posted by otghand

Thank you all for the suggestions. Right now I am looking at trying a gadget assisted based approach:

Mind Control (Cybernetic Only; Gadget/Breakable: DR 2 or less; Gadget/Breakable: Object is complex machine; Gadget/Breakable: Size -7 or -8; Increased Range: Line-of-Sight (Base range 100 yards); No Memory; Requires Computer Hacking Roll; Sensory; Superscience) [55]

Mind Probe (Cybernetic Only; Gadget/Breakable: DR 2 or less; Gadget/Breakable: Object is complex machine; Gadget/Breakable: Size -7 or -8; Increased Range: Line-of-Sight (Base range 100 yards); Invasive; Requires Computer Hacking Roll; Sensory; Superscience; Telecommunication) [31]

Mind Reading (Cybernetic Only; Gadget/Breakable: DR 2 or less; Gadget/Breakable: Object is complex machine; Gadget/Breakable: Size -7 or -8; Increased Range: Line-of-Sight (Base range 100 yards); Requires Computer Hacking Roll; Sensory; Superscience) [30]

Telecommunication (Radio) (Burst (10x); Gadget/Breakable: DR 2 or less; Gadget/Breakable: Object is complex machine; Gadget/Breakable: Size -7 or -8; Requires Electronics Operation Roll; Secure; Superscience; Video) [15]

Lemme make sure I understand what you're looking at here. You've got this device which is the source of your powers? I thought, based on your initial post, that the powers were meant to be innate, not based in what looks to be a portable cyberdeck. (SM -7 or -8 makes me think "smartphone" actually.)

Other than that, the power set looks fairly solid.