05-01-2018, 08:31 AM | #1 |
Join Date: Apr 2015
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Confused about shapeshifting
So the modifier "Absorptive Change" (Powers page 75) states that without it one must leave all equipment behind, and even with it you cannot keep using equipment.
But what is the reasoning for this? This seems incredibly forced, especially if you are transforming into a body that has the same shape and size as your normal one. This is currently causing me a massive headscratcher, especially since I planned on using Alternate Form for the stereotypical "Dark" or "Super" modes some fictional characters enter. Those don't meld their clothes away or mess with their equipment in any way, and sure are changing into a different form. Currently I am modeling a person who cannot use her full power without losing control to an underlying battle instinct, and I chose for the sake of elegance to model that as an uncontrollable alternate form that powers her up and adds a ton of mental disadvantages. And now I'm completely stymied by this. Additional Question: What is the reasoning for applying the enhancements and limitations only to that flat 15 point cost, when these things (especially limitations) can *drastically* affect the usefulness of the form. |
05-01-2018, 09:11 AM | #2 |
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Yukon, OK
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Re: Confused about shapeshifting
Oh, thats a good question and to be honest one I never thought of!
In my mind and the way I have always seen or used it you only dropped the gear if you changed physical shape. GURPS Horror: The Madness Dossier includes a template for charecters who have a mental shapechange and no mention of losing thier clothes is included. I think it would have been if the author thought that happened. Also since your talking Supers, I would allow Absorbtive Change to include costume changes, such as Shazam or Donald Blake to/from Thor.
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My GURPS publications GURPS Powers: Totem and Nature Spirits; GURPS Template Toolkit 4: Spirits; Pyramid articles. Buying them lets us know you want more! My GURPS fan contribution and blog: REFPLace GURPS Landing Page My List of GURPS You Tube videos (plus a few other useful items) My GURPS Wiki entries |
05-01-2018, 09:25 AM | #3 | |
Join Date: Apr 2015
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Re: Confused about shapeshifting
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Another Question (once again): Why is it that the *default* of shapeshifting has to include a way for it to be undone, when such is not the case for any other advantage? Abilities should all be wild by default, and slapping on a power modifier should be what causes it to be forcibly revertable by external action. This is especially bizarre in light of powers that have no anti powers, which sounds like they're forced to take Once on Stays On. Alternative ways of being forced out that aren't anti-powers do not seem to be listed or explained. |
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05-01-2018, 09:34 AM | #4 | ||
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Yukon, OK
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Re: Confused about shapeshifting
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Also helps justify that 10% price break. Take "Once On, Stays On" and/or Cosmic, +50% to counter that as appropriate. Thinking through examples, most shapechangers revert if unconscious and a lot have another trigger. Hulk gets relaxed Thor loses his hammer for 60 seconds Shazam says the magic word Berserkers calm down
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My GURPS publications GURPS Powers: Totem and Nature Spirits; GURPS Template Toolkit 4: Spirits; Pyramid articles. Buying them lets us know you want more! My GURPS fan contribution and blog: REFPLace GURPS Landing Page My List of GURPS You Tube videos (plus a few other useful items) My GURPS Wiki entries |
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05-01-2018, 09:47 AM | #5 |
Join Date: Apr 2015
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Re: Confused about shapeshifting
Yes makes sense, I'll just have normal revert triggers also fall under the default as an alternative to a power modifier.
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05-01-2018, 10:14 AM | #6 | |||||||
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Saskatoon, SK, Canada
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Re: Confused about shapeshifting
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Speaking as a GM, if your final form was pretty close to your original one, I'd also be all right with other drawbacks replacing the "have to strip" one - for instance, clothing could be uncomfortable during the transformation process, requiring a Will roll every turn to maintain concentration on the change. If you fail, that second wouldn't count against the time to transform. Quote:
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05-01-2018, 03:07 PM | #7 | |||
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Re: Confused about shapeshifting
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If you were changing from one form into a nearly identical one, I (as a GM) would just ignore that requirement. If you are changing just into very similar forms, though, you might want the Elastic Skin Advantage as a base, rather than Shapeshifting (which is much more broad). You might even have Elastic Skin as an Alternative Ability with your Shapeshifting or Morph. As Kelly mentioned, you don't become somehow mystically unable to use the equipment, a la D&D wizards and swords. "Have to take it off to keep it safe during the change" is perhaps a better phrasing than "have to leave it behind". If your human-form belt happens to fit your giant-form finger as a ring, then perhaps you can still use it. (Ask your GM exactly how the magic works, with detailed justifications at the particle physics level for how belts differ from rings so the mana can tell whether or not to flow :) Probably out of luck with your human-form ring, though. (Make sure to add a few tiny tentacles to the description of the giant for just this purpose! :) Quote:
Modifiers applied to the Shapeshifting ability itself -- that base 15-point cost -- only affect the process of change. They'd usually be abilities to affect the time required, or perhaps the conditions needed for change (Environmental, Accessibility, Trigger, etc). But those conditions wouldn't necessarily apply to each of the form's abilities, and so really shouldn't give you a discount on the entire form cost. If Mr. Hyde has ST 200, he doesn't get a huge 760-point discount for Trigger, because he's not consuming a rare, custom-made potion every time he needs an ST roll. Dr. Jekyll just needs that potion once to change into Mr. Hyde, who then wreaks havoc without that Limitation getting in the way even further. Quote:
But it's not true that no other Advantage has built-in Limitations. Such are fairly common, actually. There's not a general principle in 4e that all Advantages are defined in a pure, unmodified form, to be modded by the player. Often, they're attempts to have a pre-packaged set of traits that are generally handy and resemble something you might expect from the fiction, though of course many if not most concepts will call for further modification. It's an occasional forum sport to deconstruct the existing Advantages and Disadvantages into a collection of more primitive components making up the presumed "meta-trait" in the book. From a theoretical purist build-everything-from-scratch point of view, it would be nice for the base Advantages to be completely free of anything that could be represented as an Enhancement or Limitation. But that does make it even more time-consuming and complicated for the less dedicated players to build a character. There's a tradeoff between happy building and ease of character creation. And the GURPS editors don't seem to try to hew to any particular ideology, but rather skate around somewhere in the middle, with really common modifiers included by default on a case-by-case basis. |
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05-01-2018, 09:34 PM | #8 | |||
Join Date: Sep 2011
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Re: Confused about shapeshifting
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Also, don’t be quite so sure that they don’t have Absorptive Change. The Hulk could probably be represented as having Absorptive Change: None on the Bruce Banner form and maybe on the Hulk form as well. While Banner’s clothes get shredded (aside from the purple pants) the pants shrink back to Doc Banner size when the Hulk returns to his Banner form. By way of contrast Marvel had a parody character The Inedible Bulk in its old Not Brand Ecch! comic and one story back in the comic mimicked the then current fight between Hulk and the Sub-Mariner. When the Bulk transforms back to puny Bannerman during his fight with the Sunk-Mariner, he is shown holding onto his still enlarged purple pants with the remark, “Bulk smash, as soon as Bulk get strength to hold up own pants!” It’s humourous, but still suggestive that perhaps the Hulk does have a little Absorptive Change going on. Quote:
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05-02-2018, 12:01 AM | #9 | |
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Re: Confused about shapeshifting
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True Faith Magic Aptitude Power Investiture Shadow Form |
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05-02-2018, 03:03 AM | #10 | |
Join Date: Apr 2015
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Re: Confused about shapeshifting
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Guess my wishlist for GURPS 5th will include all abilities being source-agnostic until they're modified. As to other comments on shapeshifting: These make sense for the most part. But I think people misunderstood me when I was asking about limitations. For example if your alternate form costs 1000 points and then +15 for the advantage. If you took a huge limitation on your alternate form to only be able to use it once in a blue moon, you still have to pay 1000 points for powers you only have very limited access to. But wouldn't have to pay nearly as much if you always had them and applied a similar once in a blue moon thing to all the powers individually. Which is nonsensical. |
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basic, powers |
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