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Old 12-05-2022, 12:06 PM   #1
stranger38
 
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Default Explosive Arrows and Ancient Rockets

Hello my friends, hope y'all having a nice world cup!

Help me once again:

In Low tech there are two ancient chinese powder weapons: Explosive arrow and rocket

Both use serpentine powder. What would the damage be if using corned (TL4) or improved Black Powder (TL5)?

The rocket is 1.15 lbs and causes 2d+2
The arrow has a one ounce charge and does 1d-1.

I'll admit, my math skills are on par of an caveman.
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Old 12-05-2022, 12:32 PM   #2
sir_pudding
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Default Re: Explosive Arrows and Ancient Rockets

The Hale Rocket is on GURPS High-Tech p. 150.
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Old 12-05-2022, 12:36 PM   #3
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Default Re: Explosive Arrows and Ancient Rockets

Explosive damage scales with the square root of REF; treating a projectile propelled by a stronger explosive as scaling its damage the same way an explosion would is probably close enough for GURPS purposes. Campaigns gives TL 3 Serpentine Powder an REF of 0.3, TL 4 "Black Powder" (corned powder) an REF of 0.4, and TL 5 "Black Powder" (improved corned powder) an REF of 0.5. So, going from Serpentine to Corned would be x1.15 to damage, while going from Serpentine to Improved Corned would be x1.3 to damage.

For 2d+2, you go from an average of 9 to an average of 10.35 when upgrading to Corned; round that up to 10.5 for 3d damage. When using Improved Corned, this is instead 11.7, or 3d+1. For 1d-1, you go from an average of 2.5 to an average of 2.875, which isn't enough to see a difference when upgrading to Corned. When using Improved Corned, this is instead 3.25, which I'd be comfortable rounding up to 3.5, for 1d.
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Old 12-05-2022, 12:39 PM   #4
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Default Re: Explosive Arrows and Ancient Rockets

Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
The Hale Rocket is on GURPS High-Tech p. 150.
Isn't the hale rocktet high explosive? something like dynamite?
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Old 12-05-2022, 12:43 PM   #5
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Default Re: Explosive Arrows and Ancient Rockets

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Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
Explosive damage scales with the square root of REF; treating a projectile propelled by a stronger explosive as scaling its damage the same way an explosion would is probably close enough for GURPS purposes. Campaigns gives TL 3 Serpentine Powder an REF of 0.3, TL 4 "Black Powder" (corned powder) an REF of 0.4, and TL 5 "Black Powder" (improved corned powder) an REF of 0.5. So, going from Serpentine to Corned would be x1.15 to damage, while going from Serpentine to Improved Corned would be x1.3 to damage.

For 2d+2, you go from an average of 9 to an average of 10.35 when upgrading to Corned; round that up to 10.5 for 3d damage. When using Improved Corned, this is instead 11.7, or 3d+1. For 1d-1, you go from an average of 2.5 to an average of 2.875, which isn't enough to see a difference when upgrading to Corned. When using Improved Corned, this is instead 3.25, which I'd be comfortable rounding up to 3.5, for 1d.
ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh thank you very much!!

my hitch with the formula is always the "n"x"n" thing. ah who i'm trying to fool here, that is greek to me!
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Old 12-05-2022, 01:04 PM   #6
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Default Re: Explosive Arrows and Ancient Rockets

Quote:
Originally Posted by stranger38 View Post
Isn't the hale rocktet high explosive? something like dynamite?
Well yes, but at TL5 there is no good reason to use black powder as an explosive filler.
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Old 12-05-2022, 01:07 PM   #7
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Default Re: Explosive Arrows and Ancient Rockets

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
Well yes, but at TL5 there is no good reason to use black powder as an explosive filler.
Fair point.

but i remember seeing a cannon in adventure guns that used black powder shells. the "pom-pom" gun if i'm correct
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Old 12-05-2022, 01:43 PM   #8
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Default Re: Explosive Arrows and Ancient Rockets

Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
Well yes, but at TL5 there is no good reason to use black powder as an explosive filler.
Mid TL6. Even at early 6 you see black powder filling. You see it in the WWI "potato masher" grenade. High explosives were invented at very late tL5 but many practical developments had to wait until TL6.

Another early TL6 oddity is "Dynamite Guns".....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamite_gun

.....before c.1900 High explosives were _not_ stable enough to be used in conventional artillery so compressed air guns of up to 15 inches were tried. With their low muzzle velocities they might be better thought of as mortars.

The Wiki article mentions that the shells were light but misses that this lightness was in the casing. Like other mortars the tubes were unrifled and between that and the low muzzle velocity the shell cases could be light. The Vesuvius' 15" shells had half of their total weight as filler. That was equal to multiple hundreds of pounds of TNT.
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Old 12-05-2022, 01:53 PM   #9
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Default Re: Explosive Arrows and Ancient Rockets

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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
Mid TL6. Even at early 6 you see black powder filling. You see it in the WWI "potato masher" grenade. High explosives were invented at very late tL5 but many practical developments had to wait until TL6.

Another early TL6 oddity is "Dynamite Guns".....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamite_gun

.....before c.1900 High explosives were _not_ stable enough to be used in conventional artillery so compressed air guns of up to 15 inches were tried. With their low muzzle velocities they might be better thought of as mortars.

The Wiki article mentions that the shells were light but misses that this lightness was in the casing. Like other mortars the tubes were unrifled and between that and the low muzzle velocity the shell cases could be light. The Vesuvius' 15" shells had half of their total weight as filler. That was equal to multiple hundreds of pounds of TNT.
Thought that, by the time they've invented high explosives and smokeless powder, black powder all but vanished
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Old 12-05-2022, 02:14 PM   #10
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Thought that, by the time they've invented high explosives and smokeless powder, black powder all but vanished
Nope, it was used as explosive filler and solid rocket fuel for many years after the 1880s. You don't see it much in WWII but after 1940 that's TL7.
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