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Old 10-02-2022, 05:55 AM   #1
hal
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Buffalo, New York
Default GURPS Analog of Cyberpunk 2020 vehicles

Hi All,
I thought that as time progresses, I will eventually add a few vehicles using GURPS VEHICLES 2nd edition - that are analogs of the Cyberpunk 2020 vehicles.

Anyone who wants to comment upon my design choices or add their own designs, can freely do so. My first analog will be the AV-4 vehicle used by Trauma Team Incorporated - but it won't reflect the actual TT Inc build. Why? A stock AV-4 can be modified easily enough. ;)
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Old 10-02-2022, 06:14 AM   #2
hal
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Buffalo, New York
Default Re: GURPS Analog of Cyberpunk 2020 vehicles

The AV-4 vehicle analog isn't perfect, but it comes as close as I can get it. I chose to utilize less armor DR because weight was a major issue. I also included something like 90 Cubic feet of empty space because I wanted to be able to permit the vehicle to carry roughly 1.3 tons of cargo capacity even if I allocated cargo capacity at less than the 1.3 tons outright. Otherwise, this was a close hit to match the original stats.

One thing that I tried to do was make it so that the range values matched. Per GURPS WW II Core rules, a craft moving at patrol speed (60% max speed) utilizes the listed fuel. Range then becomes .6 x Max Speed x duration in hours. Thus, a duration of 1 hour 34 minutes becomes 1.57 hours. Range at 210 MPH is 329 Miles. Clearly, this is less than 400 miles. Problem is, the more fuel you try to carry, the heavier your vehicle becomes. The heavier your vehicle becomes, the larger your engine becomes. This in turn means that you get diminishing returns on duration of operation if you want to keep your top speed at 350 MPH. Were I to design this differently, I would think that 300 MPH is a better target speed, but that's a debate for later. With an empty cargo hold (but still 6 passengers plus pilot and co-pilot, top speed hits 380 MPH and range becomes almost 380 miles.

TL 8 McDonnel Douglas Assault Vehicle 4

McDonnell DougIas AV4 Tactical urban Assault Vehicle

Powerplant: one Rolls-Royce Pegasus II Vectored Thrust Turbofan (21,180 Ibs thrust)
Performance: Max airspeed: 350 mph.
Operational radius: 400 miles. (notational from CP2020, not GURPS)


Crew: 2 total. 2 crew stations covering vehicle maneuvering system, communicator, 4 navigation aids, targeting system, 6 countermeasures. 6 additional passengers.

Subassemblies: Vehicle +4, Body +4, Turret [Body:F] -2.

P&P: 3,600-kWs advanced battery, 21,180 lbs. thrust turbofan (vectored thrust, lift engine; short term access).

Fuel: 500 gal self-sealing light fuel tank (fire modifier -2), 500 gal jet fuel (fire 13).

Occ: two normal crew stations (ejection seat, g-seat), six normal passenger seats Cargo: 70-cf cargo hold

Armor F RL B T U
Body 4/20 4/20 4/20 4/20 4/20
Turret (F) 4/20 4/20 4/20 4/20 4/20

Weaponry Malf Type Damage SS Acc 1/2D ft Max ft RoF TL
7.62mm rifled automatic Crit. Cr 6d-1 12 12 1,560 9,900 16 8
7.62mm solid ammo - Cr 6d-1 - 12 1,560 9,900 - 8

Equipment
Body: medium range radio communicator (1,000-mile range); set of navigation instruments; IFF; GPS; autopilot; terrain following radar system; six radar detectors; HUDWAC (pupil scanner); six LLTVs (magnification x4). Turret (F): two 7.62mm rifled automatics (medium barrel; plastic cased ammo); 2,000 rounds 7.62mm solid ammo.

Statistics
Size: [LxWxH] 13.4’x6’x8’ Payload: 6,323 lbs. Lwt.: 12,934 lbs.
Volume: 641 cf Maint.: 31.7 hours (3.03 mh/day) Price: $397,398

HT: 12 HP: 750 [Body], 8 [Turret (F)].

Aerial Performance: Stall Speed 0 mph, Drag 505, Top Speed 350 mph, aAccel 13 mph/s, aMR 2.5, aSR 4, aDecel 10 mph/s.


Design Notes:
TL8 medium frame expensive materials [Vehicle].
TL8 DR 5 expensive metal [Vehicle].
TL8 DR 20 advanced composite [Body].
Operating Duration: 1 H 34 M 26 S.
Payload Cost: $1,938
Vehicle Features: computerized controls, no streamlining.
Body: underbelly skid.
Turret: full rotation.
Volume: 640 cf [Body], 0.665 cf [Turret (F)].
Area: 500 sf [Body], 5 sf [Turret (F)].
Aerial Performance: external item drag 0, payload 0, sweep none,;
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Old 10-02-2022, 09:28 AM   #3
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: GURPS Analog of Cyberpunk 2020 vehicles

If I were the MacDac engineer designing a new vehicle to these specifications I would probably know that it would be far mroe efficient to desgn it as a lifting body and then to make standard operating proceedure be to orbit the patrol area at only a little over lifting body stall speed.

This would probably make it easy to meet performance goals but I won't promise it's not because VE2 loves lifting bodies. It does.

Also, I would wonder where the 8 ft diameter intake fan typical of a Pegasus engine went on this design? :)
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Old 10-02-2022, 01:51 PM   #4
hal
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Buffalo, New York
Default Re: GURPS Analog of Cyberpunk 2020 vehicles

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post

Also, I would wonder where the 8 ft diameter intake fan typical of a Pegasus engine went on this design? :)
My wife laughed when I read this to her while we were driving. She said you had to have been smiling when you typed that.
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Old 10-02-2022, 02:20 PM   #5
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: GURPS Analog of Cyberpunk 2020 vehicles

Quote:
Originally Posted by hal View Post
My wife laughed when I read this to her while we were driving. She said you had to have been smiling when you typed that.
Well, you can put that sort of intake on a vehicle besides a Harrier. The Batmobile in the first Michael Keaton/Tim Burton Batamn movie has such a thing. Of course you then have to worry about where the rest of the engine goes.
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Old 10-02-2022, 08:59 PM   #6
hal
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Buffalo, New York
Default Re: GURPS Analog of Cyberpunk 2020 vehicles

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
Well, you can put that sort of intake on a vehicle besides a Harrier. The Batmobile in the first Michael Keaton/Tim Burton Batamn movie has such a thing. Of course you then have to worry about where the rest of the engine goes.
Part of the problem with GURPS VEHICLES 2nd edition is that some components do not have minimum lengths/heights/widths - but merely require that the cubic volume be correct. There is a vast difference between a 3 x 10 x 3 vs 4.48 x 4.48 x 4.48 component.

When I was trying to build the AV-4, I found a serious weight limit staring me in the face, and looking at the dimensions involved AFTER I had put in all of the minimum required items, left me with a vehicle that was a touch over 13' long, 8 feet high, and 6' wide. The initial default dimensions of the vehicle was a ridiculous 3.5 feet high... GVB needs to be watched a little more closely. I suspect too, that it would have worked better had the description from the original source not mentioned a real world engine. That's what had my wife laughing when I explained it to her.

As it was, I looked at the vehicle design rules and realized that the design rules wasn't even close to what GURPS VEHICLES does. Ah well...
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Old 10-02-2022, 09:24 PM   #7
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: GURPS Analog of Cyberpunk 2020 vehicles

Quote:
Originally Posted by hal View Post
PThe initial default dimensions of the vehicle was a ridiculous 3.5 feet high... ...
Yes, the AV-4 I remember from my somewhat spotty Cyberpunk collection did look like a flying sportscar to me. Of course I can't get to that vaguely remembered book now.

I suspect that a later author looked casually for some sort of generic "flying vehicle" to be used as an airborne ambulance. Then an art director after him found some new art to use that looked more like a flying ambulance.

<shrug>Endemic to works of many hands.
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Old 10-02-2022, 10:14 PM   #8
clu2415
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Default Re: GURPS Analog of Cyberpunk 2020 vehicles

1) If the operational range is 400 miles, that means it leaves base, flies up to 400 miles, loiters some amount of time, and returns to base on one load of fuel. 2 hours, 17 minutes of flight time @350 mph, plus loiter time.

2) Although that much range seems pointless, since if you just got shot, you don’t want to wait an hour or more for extraction! If the grim cyber-future is at least as densely packed as 2022 Charlotte, NC, there’s at least 4 helicopter-capable hospitals within 20 miles. The aircraft can’t possibly be that far away beforehand if they expect to save your life and there’s no way it would need to fly that far afterward.
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Old 10-03-2022, 11:12 AM   #9
hal
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Buffalo, New York
Default Re: GURPS Analog of Cyberpunk 2020 vehicles

Quote:
Originally Posted by clu2415 View Post
1) If the operational range is 400 miles, that means it leaves base, flies up to 400 miles, loiters some amount of time, and returns to base on one load of fuel. 2 hours, 17 minutes of flight time @350 mph, plus loiter time.

2) Although that much range seems pointless, since if you just got shot, you don’t want to wait an hour or more for extraction! If the grim cyber-future is at least as densely packed as 2022 Charlotte, NC, there’s at least 4 helicopter-capable hospitals within 20 miles. The aircraft can’t possibly be that far away beforehand if they expect to save your life and there’s no way it would need to fly that far afterward.
At present, the general idea is to work within the guidelines of GURPS VEHICLES and try to meet the demands of the story as given in CP2020.

As best as I can flesh it out, if a vehicle moves at 350 MPH with a listed Duration for fuel use of 1 hour 34 minutes, we're looking at a max duration of 94 minutes divided by 3 (fuel usage is tripled per page 148 of GURPS WW II Core rulebook). So, round trip duration at max speed leaves the AV-4 capable of reaching 350 MPH x 3.5 minutes /60 minutes per hour or roughly 20 miles per 3.5 minutes travel.

Why 3.5 minutes? SLA (Servie level Agreement) is that the team must be there within 6 minutes of receiving the call. Assuming that it takes roughly 26 seconds to reach top speed, plus negligable time climbing if the AV-4 is starting from what amounts to a heliport pad atop a sky scaper, that leaves roughly 30 seconds to scramble for the waiting team to go from day to day "waiting for a call" mode to scramble to their AV-4, take off and head towards their location. Something tells me that the AV-4 is going to need to be kept warmed up for such a jump start - and that I can't estimate all too well, but let's call it a fat 90 seconds to take off and land, leaving roughly 3.5 minutes of max flight time.

So - 20 mile radius at top speed, with about 30 minutes worth of fuel. A single point of departure from the center of the operational area will have a radius of 40 miles all around. This would be sufficient to cover modern day Los Angeles (44 miles x 39). Keep in mind I'm using a 5 minute clock here, whereas the SLA is 6 minutes.

So, operational range for the AV-4 as far as Trauma Team goes? What I have works.

Now, the vehicle load is 1400 lbs for the cargo carried (70 cargo x 20 lbs) plus the passengers and crew.

One pilot to handle the flight proper. One co-pilot to handle things like "Drones" used to advance scout the landing area before the craft arrives, as well as handling the other gear aboard the craft. Then you need Two security specialists and two EMT. That gives you 4 men out of the 6 that the AV-4 can carry in addition to its crew of 2. In Cyberpunk Red, Best TT contracts (Platinum) carry an onboard surgeon as well. So either we carry a mini-surgical unit aboard the craft and an ESU or we carry 3 ESU's without shortening the flight time. But, as noted, we have a total of 30 minutes flight time at max speed for now. That's 15 minutes out, 15 minutes back.
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Old 10-03-2022, 03:12 PM   #10
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: GURPS Analog of Cyberpunk 2020 vehicles

[QUOTE=hal;2454301]of 94 minutes divided by 3 (fuel usage is tripled per page 148 of GURPS WW II Core rulebook). You probably shouldn't use those rules for a vehicle that has no aerodynamic lift. If you always have to burn fuel to produce thrust equal to weight there is no fuel saving cruise possible.

Of course your 12 minutes in and out would make this impossible too. You'd have to run the engine at full blast all the time.
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