[MH] Using Alternative Abilities for Powers

[Carlos]

I'm about to play a Monster Hunter game and using the MH4: Sidekicks, I was considering to create a Weapon Master (Action 3: Furious Fist) + Psychic or Overman.

That said, is it possible to use Alternative Abilities with the Powers from MH1, whether they are Bioenhancement, Mysticism or Psionics?

For example:

Psionics

Autoteleport 2 [40]
Pyrokinesis 3 [8]
Telekinesis 7 [7]
Mind Control 1 [5]
Mind Reading [6]
Mind Probe [4]
Mindwipe [7]
Telescan [5]
Telesend [6]
Precognition [5]
Psychometry [4]

Total: 97 (3 points left)

In the example above, Autoteleport 2 is the most expensive ability (costing 40 points), while all the other psionic powers are bought as Alternative Abilities.

I believe the answer would be "Yes", because that's how it works for Divine Favor and the Xia template (Pyramid Magazine #3/70) that has mastery over all the five elements (Chinese Elemental Talent).

[Refplace]

Depends on the GM.
If all psychic powers use the same power modifier than yes. However if using say ESP, Telepathy, and Teleportation as power modifiers than you would need to break it into groups.
Whether everything is Psionics or Psychic or smaller power groups as in GURPS Psionics Powers is a setting decision. Personally I feel grouping all psionics under one label is fine and especially appropriate if the setting has magic.
On the other hand in a psionics focused campaign - especially one without either magical powers or a magic system a breakdown like in Psionic Powers is thematic and can encourage niches.

[Christopher R. Rice]

You can for one source and type, e.g., all ESP Psi Powers.

[Carlos]

Originally Posted by Refplace

If all psychic powers use the same power modifier than yes.

In Monster Hunter, all Psychic powers have the Psionic power modifier, all Bioenhancement powers have the Bioenhancement power modifier and all the Mysticism powers have the Mysticism power modifier.

Originally Posted by Refplace

Personally I feel grouping all psionics under one label is fine and especially appropriate if the setting has magic.

Not only there is magic in the setting but that magic is RPM, which is extremely versatile. And Monster Hunter is also compatible with Chinese Elemental Powers, which is used by a specific template, the Xia [400 points] from Pyramid Magazine #3/70, which seems to be compatible with Alternative Abilities, even for powers from different elements.

I used Psionic powers as an example, but I could use the example of a Super-soldier that bought Adrenal-Muscular Trigger 16 [32 points], Discriminatory Smell 2 [5 points] and Super Jump 3 [6 points]. All these powers came from the same source (bioenhancements).

Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice

You can for one source and type, e.g., all ESP Psi Powers.

That was the first thing that came to my mind, but then I saw the Xia template. Unless I'm missing something, the Xia with Chinese Elemental Talent doesn't seem to have a "All Fire Powers" limitation when using Alternative Abilities, even when each element Talent of it's own (like Psionics).

[Donny Brook]

I am not aware of any requirement that the Alternates share the same power modifier. It is certainly not stated in the latest treatment of the subject in Power-Ups 8.

It's okay to use and Alternate Ability structure as long as the GM agrees that it makes sense for the related abilities to be functionally alternate to each other. For example, if a character needs to put both hands to his head to use psionic telepathy and needs to make weaving motions with both hands to cast a magic spell, they can be Alternate Abilities.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Donny Brook

I am not aware of any requirement that the Alternates share the same power modifier. It is certainly not stated in the latest treatment of the subject in Power-Ups 8.

Alternate abilities are expected to be different ways of manifesting the same underlying power, which is quite unlikely for abilities with different power sources.

[nudj]

I think the essential thing (besides the one second to change) is that countermeasures that negate one ability negate the others.

[Donny Brook]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Alternate abilities are expected to be different ways of manifesting the same underlying power, which is quite unlikely for abilities with different power sources.

Well that's one opinion, but as I said, I see nothing in the rules that says that has to be about the power modifier.

[ericthered]

Originally Posted by Carlos

Not only there is magic in the setting but that magic is RPM, which is extremely versatile. And Monster Hunter is also compatible with Chinese Elemental Powers, which is used by a specific template, the Xia [400 points] from Pyramid Magazine #3/70, which seems to be compatible with Alternative Abilities, even for powers from different elements.

Yeah, you won't be upsetting the witch. I'm not as sure about the inhumans and the other wildcard folks, but the witch at least will be fine. The experiment as well.

[Kallatari]

An often overlooked but important drawback of alternative abilities is that whatever neutralizes one ability of the set will neutralize them all.

So if you want to mix psionics and magic and bioenhancements under a single set of alternative abilities, then you have to accept that a psi-static will turn them all off, even though magic and bioenhancements aren't psionic (and anti-magic/low mana will affect your psi and bioenhancements, as will superscience drugs that neutralize bioenhancements now affect your psi and magic, etc.). Because alternative abilities means they are all the same power/ability, just turned to a different mode/function. So your magic and bioenhancements are just another dial on your psionic powers switch...

And that's at a higher granularity. If you are using a psionic Mind Probe on someone and they use Neutralize Mind Probe, you lose everything that is linked via an alternative ability.

That's the main reason alternative abilities are strongly encouraged to all be from the same power source, and sometimes even focus/type, as that's usually the only way neutralizing everything makes narrative sense.

• I can easily see a Neutralize Mind Probe affecting all Psionic Telepathy powers at once rather easily, as it can reasonably be viewed that they're all rely just switches on a single power called Telepathy. So I'd allow all Psionic Telepathy to be in a set of alternative abilities without question.
• It's harder to see it affects all psionic abilities unless it specifically targeted psionic abilities (Neutralize Psionics instead of Neutralize Mind Probe), but it's within reasonable narrative logic, so that could be acceptable. I like the default nuance that all magic falls under one power and all gets drained at once, but each psionic power is distinct and does not. But that's a preference, not a game breaking rule, so having all psi as alternative abilities to each other, in my opinion, reasonably acceptable.
• I cannot understand why if you where hit by a Neutralize on your psi Mind Probe that not only are your psionics ended, but so are your magical spells, bioenhancements, etc. Why would draining a psi affect something that uses mana? or inside your body? I personally wouldn't allow it as I couldn't explain it away.

Obviously, there are lots of narrative what if scenarios you could use to explain possible links, but then I'd require adding the appropriate limitations for them. Your bioenhancements are partially powered by your innate psi, so you want them as alternative abilities... ok, sure, but then please also add the Psionic -10% limitation to them, making them susceptible to all psi interference. I'd personally be hard pressed to let magical abilities go that route and merge with psi, but I'm sure someone can come up with an explanation.

So, does allowing everything as alternative to each other break the rules/game balance? No, not if you also game the drawbacks to them (i.e.: only use one at a time - including waiting until duration expires if applicable - and neutralizing one neutralizes them all). Traits are worth what they are worth, including all the limitations that come with the cost cuts.

Whether it "makes sense narratively" is subjective and setting/GM dependent but can easily be waved through with enough mysticism pseudo-science babblespeak...



EDIT: And here's the actual rule, GURPS Powers, p.11

2. Anything that disables one ability disables the whole collection. If injury or critical failure cripples or burns out any of the abilities – or a foe neutralizes or drains one – none of them are available until the affected one recovers!