Using only GURPS Bio-Tech, how tough a critter can you create?

[cosmicfish]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

No. He was talking about TL 4 in stuff other than biotech. Not that it helps because realistic biotech still sucks when it comes to doing damage to metal.

Sorry, that is what I meant, I wrote it poorly.

[ericthered]

I wonder how this changes if we drop the TL on the metal-users side. I'm assuming TL 8 can be creamed, as well as TL 9, but TL 12 monsters. How about TL 10?

[cosmicfish]

Originally Posted by ericthered

I wonder how this changes if we drop the TL on the metal-users side. I'm assuming TL 8 can be creamed, as well as TL 9, but TL 12 monsters. How about TL 10?

A more interesting question...

In theory, any TL should be able to beat any other TL, given the right numbers, tactics, etc. If we are limiting it to a "head to head" scenario, then you need to consider the following relative lethality and durability at the various possible ranges of engagement. For example, it is fairly clear that a high-biotech beastie can be very lethal in close combat... but it has to survive long enough to reach close combat!

So at what TL is a well-equipped pure-human soldier able to consistently stop a bio-beast before it gets to close combat? The beastie could be extremely stealthy (allowing it to avoid precise targeting), or extremely fast and agile (allowing it to dodge), or just plain tough enough to take whatever hits it takes. But eventually, increasing tech will overcome all of those advantages.

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by cosmicfish

No, I was not actually talking ST vs ST - although in your post you did indeed start with ST 22 (compared to an average human wearing a warsuit, with ST 50), so I am not sure why the assumption of ST 22 would be confusing.

Because it's in a different paragraph, in which I discuss throwing, not dragging up a cliff.

I was mostly referring to the fact that presumably the Warsuit is equipped with something other than a Swiss Army Knife and a bad attitude. With TL 12 weaponry, Warsuit guy should be blowing big holes in biotech guy long before he gets into grapple range.

The OP asked for something that could damage someone in a warsuit, so that was the question I addressed.

Plus, in the best case, this massive breeding program is only good for about one observed battle. Because for the second battle those Warsuits will fly, and will have some type of weapon chest-mounted so that any grapple attempt just ensures that they can be guaranteed of not missing once the grapple starts. And that retrofit will be much, much faster than breeding some new bio-monster.

And then it's not the UT warsuit, is it?

[cosmicfish]

All right, congratulations, you have indeed stated that with enough ST you can break something. That is an unequivocally true and simultaneously useless observation.

Better make sure that the bio-beast has enough limbs to fully restrain the Warsuit, since he will be kicking and head-butting with ST 50 all the way. And there are a lot of other things you should do, but since we are apparently talking only about the specific case of battling a Warsuit-and-nothing-else in an area with natural cliffs I guess you can disregard them.

[Otaku]

The TL 4 "in anything but Bio-tech" still seems asinine to me; like I said Bio-Tech is Ultra Tech; to produce Bio-Tech outside of selective breeding programs is going to require technology in excess of TL4. I'd think TL 7 at the lowest, but since I am going off the top of my head perhaps TL 6 has some as well.

That's why I suggested TL 9 v TL 9, especially with the realistic restriction. If you want to point out that only one side is willing to do major, body altering Bio-Tech (given how many things really are Bio-Tech without realizing it - got a purebred dog?) or vat growing soldiers or similar all out aspects... while the other side views cybernetics and advanced machinery in a similar light. I suppose we could have a hard-to-believe biotech society where all machinery has been replaced with biotech counterparts (e.g. "organic computers" and such) but that makes further biotech advancement harder to swallow (or at least starts to feel TL16-ish).

Limiting both sides to realistic TL 9 might actually give us something to work with.

Well, the rest of you something to work with, given that my current GURPS resources are scant. ^^'