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Old 10-23-2009, 05:38 AM   #1
Azinctus
 
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Location: Lyon, France
Default 4e Vickers Vernon 1st draught

The Vickers Vernon was a 1920s two engined military cargo plane/troop transporter based on the Vickers Commercial which was a development of the Vickers Vimy.

I have attempted to make up stats based on Wikipedia (it's my first vehicle):

Vickers Vernon
ST/HP: 80
Hnd/SR: +2/3
HT: 9f
Move: 2/50
LWt: 6.6 tons
Load: 4.6 tons (including fuel)
SM: +7
Occ: 3+11
DR: 2
Range: 320 miles
Cost: $100,000+-
Loc.: O2WWi
Stall: 30
Notes:

I don't know how much fuel it would have carried.

The players will own a similar plane (actually a Vickers Commercial but I couldn't find stats for that.) I want their plane to have a reserve fuel tank added to double the aircraft's range.

Finally, how do I figure what length of runway it would need to take off and land? Looking at film on Utube of Vickers Vimy replicas taking off I guess less than 100 yards. I intend to have the PCs land the thing in fields and on roads is that realistic (my source for such behaviour is Biggles stories)?
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Old 10-23-2009, 06:15 AM   #2
Mgellis
 
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Location: Flushing, Michigan
Default Re: 4e Vickers Vernon 1st draught

Quote:
Originally Posted by Azinctus View Post
The Vickers Vernon was a 1920s two engined military cargo plane/troop transporter based on the Vickers Commercial which was a development of the Vickers Vimy.

I have attempted to make up stats based on Wikipedia (it's my first vehicle):

Vickers Vernon
ST/HP: 80
Hnd/SR: +2/3
HT: 9f
Move: 2/50
LWt: 6.6 tons
Load: 4.6 tons (including fuel)
SM: +7
Occ: 3+11
DR: 2
Range: 320 miles
Cost: $100,000+-
Loc.: O2WWi
Stall: 30
Notes:

I don't know how much fuel it would have carried.

The players will own a similar plane (actually a Vickers Commercial but I couldn't find stats for that.) I want their plane to have a reserve fuel tank added to double the aircraft's range.

Finally, how do I figure what length of runway it would need to take off and land? Looking at film on Utube of Vickers Vimy replicas taking off I guess less than 100 yards. I intend to have the PCs land the thing in fields and on roads is that realistic (my source for such behaviour is Biggles stories)?
Some more information is here...

http://www.aviastar.org/air/england/a_vickers.html

...and here...

http://www.onwar.com/weapons/aircraf...rs_Vernon.html

I'd change the Hnd/SR to 0/3 based on figures for similar aircraft in High-Tech. Also, the weights should probably be 4.0 tons empty and 6.3 tons loaded, making the Load 2.3 tons. Don't worry about the exact fuel weight...it might change the HP up or down by 1 or 2 points, but it's not critical.

Other than that, it looks pretty good.

Mark
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Old 10-23-2009, 06:45 AM   #3
Azinctus
 
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Default Re: 4e Vickers Vernon 1st draught

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mgellis View Post
the weights should probably be 4.0 tons empty and 6.3 tons loaded, making the Load 2.3 tons.
Thanks Mark. Are you using metric tonnes? It would be about 4.0/6.3 tonnes in metric. But campaigns says to use 2,000= 1 ton.
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Old 10-23-2009, 07:59 AM   #4
Mgellis
 
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Default Re: 4e Vickers Vernon 1st draught

Quote:
Originally Posted by Azinctus View Post
Thanks Mark. Are you using metric tonnes? It would be about 4.0/6.3 tonnes in metric. But campaigns says to use 2,000= 1 ton.
Short (2000-lb.) tons, but rounding fractions to the nearest tenth of a ton.

# Empty weight: 7,981 lb (3628 kg)
# Loaded weight: 12,554 lb (5706 kg)

Metric tons would have LWt 5.7 tons and an empty weight of 3.6 tons, giving it a load of 2.1 tons.

Mark
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Old 10-23-2009, 08:02 AM   #5
Azinctus
 
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Default Re: 4e Vickers Vernon 1st draught

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mgellis View Post
Short (2000-lb.) tons, but rounding fractions to the nearest tenth of a ton.

# Empty weight: 7,981 lb (3628 kg)
# Loaded weight: 12,554 lb (5706 kg)

Metric tons would have LWt 5.7 tons and an empty weight of 3.6 tons, giving it a load of 2.1 tons.

Mark
Absolutely. My mistake.
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Old 10-23-2009, 09:33 AM   #6
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Default Re: 4e Vickers Vernon 1st draught

On the Vickers' take-off ability: aircraft of this period were flown from well-drained short-grass fields, that had to be relatively level and without abrupt bumps.
Rain could still cause a parked aircraft to bog down, so there were usually 'hardstandings' even for wooden biplanes.
High winds require a large biplane to be well anchored (usually with weights attached to the wheels and tailskid) and 'tied down' at the wingtips as well. Many aircrat are manufactured with eyebolts in the wings' lower surfaces for these 'tie-downs' to be attached.

Another airfield requirement is that a large, light-framed aircraft be able to both land and take off into wind (with only a small allowance for a side-wind); this traditionally resulted in large fields that could be used in any direction.
Another requirement is that the chosen approach/departure route not have any high obstructions, and preferably not have any field boundaries, ditches or hedges, to permit a aborted take-off.

The smaller an aircraft, the smaller the field required, generally speaking. Landing would be easier than take-off, if using an improvised field, due to low-powered engines resulting in a long take-off run, as opposed to a short, engine-off landing in a draggy aircraft.

This is why stories from the time often mention having to 'lighten ship' before being able to take-off after a forced landing.

Game-wise; this IMO should require a Pilot skill roll to take weights (such as remaining fuel), length of runway and height of obstructions into the mix.

Hope this is useful.
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Old 10-23-2009, 03:49 PM   #7
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Default Re: 4e Vickers Vernon 1st draught

That's excellent information Sgtcallistan. Lightening the load is exactly the sort of survival decision I want them to have to make: "A B.A.R each is very useful, but something has to stay if we are going to take off from this field."

Here are the revised stats:

Vickers Vernon

ST/HP: 80
Hnd/SR: 0/3
HT: 9f
Move: 2/50
EWt: 4 tons
LWt: 6.3 tons
Load: 2.3 tons
SM: +7
Occ: 3+11
DR: 2
Range: 320 miles
Cost: $100,000+-
Loc.: O2WWi
Stall: 30
Notes:
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Old 10-23-2009, 08:15 PM   #8
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Default Re: 4e Vickers Vernon 1st draught

Quote:
Originally Posted by Azinctus View Post
Here are the revised stats:

Vickers Vernon

ST/HP: 80
Hnd/SR: 0/3
HT: 9f
Move: 2/50
EWt: 4 tons
LWt: 6.3 tons
Load: 2.3 tons
SM: +7
Occ: 3+11
DR: 2
Range: 320 miles
Cost: $100,000+-
Loc.: O2WWi
Stall: 30
Notes:
Much obliged. I tip my GURPS Cliffhanger/Horror GM'ing hat in your general direction.
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Old 10-24-2009, 08:11 AM   #9
sgtcallistan
 
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Location: Chatham, Kent, England
Default Re: 4e Vickers Vernon 1st draught

Quote:
Originally Posted by Azinctus View Post
That's excellent information Sgtcallistan. Lightening the load is exactly the sort of survival decision I want them to have to make: "A B.A.R each is very useful, but something has to stay if we are going to take off from this field."
Thank you.
Something else to bear in mind; the fuel load for a trip back might be critical in these circumstances; enough to make the trip, not enough to prevent take-off with necesary load/passengers.
Not a few downed aircraft in this period had to have things like seats and straps removed to get the weight down as much as possible.

My mention of bumps on the field recalls a Handley-Page 0/400 bomber that broke it's undercarriage on a mooring block during landing (this at RAF Northolt in 1919, IIRC), resulting the in the airframe being unrepairable (as it was on it's home 'field, it was broken for parts).
Landing on a dirt country road is (just) practical for early fighter aircraft, but for a Vernon-sized beast, we are in the realm of Heroic Piloting. Of course, in a cinematic game...

Something like a tank of water, if you are flying over a desert, is both absolutely necesary in case of an emergency landing, and at the same time a major item of cargo, and therefore limits the fuel carried.

Another detail; it's a common trope in these types of aircraft to make take-offs very early in the day, when the air is stillest.
Play it for drama, I recommend; the dawn patrols on both sides will also take-off at first light; the enemy searchers have camped nearby overnight; the preparations in silence broken by the engine as it starts, and it must start first time... could be grand.

Also; a recent re-enactment of Bleriot's flight across the English Channel required a dawn take-off and wind from the south; a function of an underpowered, draggy airframe, a need for little crosswind (endurance/fuel limitations) and cool air actually making the engine more reliable and perhaps fuel-efficient.
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