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Old 10-12-2018, 06:04 PM   #1
hal
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Buffalo, New York
Default Age of Sail Skills

Hello Folks,
As I work on a project, I came across something that made me think that I need to consider a reworking of the GURPS SKILL set maybe a little.

A Gunner during the Age of Sail would have to understand angles, know how to aim a cannon, and possibly even know how to load a cannon.

On the flip side, there were those who were part of the team, whose job was to clean the gun's insides to avoid premature explosion, load the cannon, and run the gun back out in position to fire. Short of aiming at the hull when at point blank range - it wouldn't be likely any of the crew could man the cannon and fire it properly.

To that extent, would it be safe to state that the Gunnery Skill is the skill for firing the gun, but a professional skill might be deemed more appropriate for the manual gun handling aspect?

One of the ways (or so it appears) that ships could estimate the ranges between two ships, was oddly enough, based on trig and triangles. The angle formed by the top of the enemy ship (a guestimate on the ship's mast's height) and the angle used for measuring the elevation of the cannon was one means available at the time. Since we're talking about a right Triangle - that gives the gunner some means for estimating the distance.

In all, it seems based on what I'm reading, that only ONE of the gunners involved with handling a cannon had the actual math and skills to aim and fire to hit what was aimed at, the rest were just the autoloading mechanism equivalent for TL 4.

Just my thinking aloud. Comments?
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Old 10-12-2018, 08:37 PM   #2
Dewey
 
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Default Re: Age of Sail Skills

My understanding was that Gunnery and Guns skills already include loading and maintaining the gun, in addition to using it. For example, there are circumstances where an IQ-Based Guns check can replace Armory. Fast-Draw (Ammo) might also be applicable for loaders who have no idea how to fire.
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Old 10-12-2018, 09:19 PM   #3
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Default Re: Age of Sail Skills

My first thought is that the maintenance, loading, and positioning could be captured by the Soldier or Crewman skills.
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Old 10-12-2018, 09:39 PM   #4
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Default Re: Age of Sail Skills

I would just use IQ Gunner for this.
You would have a chief gunner who did the aiming, the rest of the crew might even be working off default, especially in a pirate or merchant crew rather than a military one.
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Old 10-12-2018, 10:13 PM   #5
hal
 
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Default Re: Age of Sail Skills

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey View Post
My understanding was that Gunnery and Guns skills already include loading and maintaining the gun, in addition to using it. For example, there are circumstances where an IQ-Based Guns check can replace Armory. Fast-Draw (Ammo) might also be applicable for loaders who have no idea how to fire.
Armory skills required to repair a weapon is not subsumed within the skill to use the weapon.

Historically Speaking, the French Spanish crews were not anywhere near as fast as the English when it came to reloading their cannons. Getting as much as a two for one speed or 3 for 2 speed wasn't uncommon. The listed manpower required to handle the gun for an 18 lbr was 8 men. When handled by half this value, the speed to reload was doubled. Constant drilling did NOT include live fire - as the cost of a 74 gun broadside was equal to one month's pay for the captain of said broadside.

Now, fast Draw Ammo for a gun that requires 60 seconds to load, can save up to 10 seconds with a fast draw skill roll. One would imagine that the same aspect would likely apply to cannons - but then again, maybe not.

There is a section of the rules that specify a ST based roll against the Gunner skill, but it says to read the weapon description. Unfortunately, LOW TECH doesn't go into that level of detail other than to say that the crew required for the gun is 6, not 8.

I'm going to have to dig out my GUNS AT SEA book along with NAVAL GUNNERY book to see if the reference to how many men it took to man a gun is listed for the various guns.
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Old 10-12-2018, 10:15 PM   #6
hal
 
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Default Re: Age of Sail Skills

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandy View Post
My first thought is that the maintenance, loading, and positioning could be captured by the Soldier or Crewman skills.
That is one possibility - but if I went that route? I'd likely treat Gunnery Crews who handled guns (ie cannons) would be at a default like Sailor-2, and then allow the skill technique for Loading Guns, go from there to as high as Sailor + 4 maybe (or even not bother to cap it).

If one were to use ST in lieu of IQ or DX rolls for Gunner as suggested in the CHARACTERS book, that might work. Thank you.
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Old 10-12-2018, 10:22 PM   #7
hal
 
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Default Re: Age of Sail Skills

Quote:
Originally Posted by Refplace View Post
I would just use IQ Gunner for this.
You would have a chief gunner who did the aiming, the rest of the crew might even be working off default, especially in a pirate or merchant crew rather than a military one.
For a piracy campaign, I'd expect it to be at a default. IF you have a crew that could handle all of the manual labor of loading the gun - and loading it without forgetting any steps, or loading it without doing it in the wrong order - there would still be the issue of actively aiming it properly, either wedging the quoin up or depressing it, or even turning the cannon carriage from side to side when firing through the gun port. THAT aspect of aim is unlikely to be something you could do at default. What I'm reading in one book has really POOR point blank ranges for the age of piracy cannons or Spanish Armada era guns.

I think possibly the best route is to simply go with Sailor-2 and those crew who practice daily on drilling with the gun, get to improve their loading skills as a technique.

Skill categories I'm trying to work with?

Skill 9 or less: Poor
Skill 10 to 11: Green
Skill 12 to 13: Average
Skill 14 to 15: Good
Skill 16+ : Crack


An average crew would range about skill 12 or so in most tasks. A crew not used to handling guns would drop to Green as far as speed goes. After a while they'd go back up to Average. Through constant drilling, they'd eventually go up as high as Good. Only a Good crew with battlefield experience might ever get as high as Crack.
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Old 10-13-2018, 03:09 AM   #8
scc
 
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Default Re: Age of Sail Skills

Quote:
Originally Posted by Refplace View Post
I would just use IQ Gunner for this.
You would have a chief gunner who did the aiming, the rest of the crew might even be working off default, especially in a pirate or merchant crew rather than a military one.
Someone needs the concept of a press gang explained to them. During the age of sail 'recruitment' for crew for navel vessel's involved sending a bunch of burly types of grap drunks from dockside taverns under the assumption that they where sailors, these poor unfortunate souls would then wake up the next morning to find out they where now crew on board one of His or Her Majesty's Ship's and where expected to perform the duties thereof or face the lash. Interestingly enough American sailor so inducted to service aboard British ships caused the 1812 War.

Please note that people so inducted where not members of the Navy and where still civilians, these days they be the equivalent to contractors hired by the military to perform work.
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Old 10-13-2018, 03:31 AM   #9
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Default Re: Age of Sail Skills

Quote:
Originally Posted by scc View Post
Someone needs the concept of a press gang explained to them. During the age of sail 'recruitment' for crew for navel vessel's involved sending a bunch of burly types of grap drunks from dockside taverns under the assumption that they where sailors, these poor unfortunate souls would then wake up the next morning to find out they where now crew on board one of His or Her Majesty's Ship's and where expected to perform the duties thereof or face the lash. Interestingly enough American sailor so inducted to service aboard British ships caused the 1812 War.

Please note that people so inducted where not members of the Navy and where still civilians, these days they be the equivalent to contractors hired by the military to perform work.
The impressment of men into service on HM's ships was rather more complex than that, as was the status of those impressed. What's more, captains really preferred not to have to resort to it, and if they did, they also preferred not to accidentally take aboard landsmen. Aside from legality and what we now call 'optics', they weren't much use until trained, but still had to be quartered, fed, and paid.

As for the War of 1812, the causes were rather more complex than just being about 'press gangs' - and it wasn't press gangs that were the issue, but the RN's habit was grabbing people it believed were deserters (but which were sometimes in fact US sailors that had never been on any sort of British vessel at all), and the Americans' habit of hiding deserters rather than handing them over. But there were other issues, like the British selling guns to native peoples which they then used to shoot Americans who were encroaching on their land (and likely also some who weren't), and like the desire of some to add Canada to the USA's possessions.
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Old 10-15-2018, 12:12 PM   #10
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Default Re: Age of Sail Skills

Quote:
Originally Posted by Refplace View Post
I would just use IQ Gunner for this.
You would have a chief gunner who did the aiming, the rest of the crew might even be working off default, especially in a pirate or merchant crew rather than a military one.
On the other hand, anyone who could prove that they had actual gunnery experience (or convince the Captain or quartermaster that they did) would tend to get a better deal when joining a merchant or pirate crew, sometimes even if they had no sailing experience. A veteran gun chief from the Army who wanted to try his hand as a sailor could find himself in charge of the entire gunnery section on a new merchant ship... and only later discover that he's now a pirate.
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