Help picking a magic system

[Kesendeja]

I need help picking out a magic system for a game I'm running.

The system needs to be combat capable.
Have enough spells it can simulate a system with a long history.
Have rules for creating spells, to simulate the cutting edge of magic.

I'd appreciate opinions on what system to get and why.

[Refplace]

Several systems will work for those targets.
The Basic Magic system is probably the most combat capable overall.
RPM is good but your going to have to worry abotu enough Charm slots.

[Phantasm]

A few suggestions:

Realm Magic
Syntactic/Runic Magic
Ritual Path Magic

Note that these tend to be the more flexible systems. Runic in particular gives the feel of "ancient Magic" while all three permit the creation of new spells on-the-fly.

I would have tossed in Standard Magic (it gets no love), but for the fact that it doesn't have set rules for coming up with new spells. (Coming up with new spells for it seems to be an art, not a science.)

[jason taylor]

Knots and rings and anything that closes upon itself often has a magical symbolism. You can make something of that.

[vierasmarius]

Originally Posted by Refplace

Several systems will work for those targets.
The Basic Magic system is probably the most combat capable overall.
RPM is good but your going to have to worry abotu enough Charm slots.

I'd actually rate RPM above Basic Magic in terms of being able to cast substantial combat spells (ie, more than 1d fireballs every other turn). Big spells in Basic are quite draining, meaning you're only likely to fire off one or two during a given encounter. With RPM, combat casting will mostly be restricted to Charms, which a competent mage is likely to have over a dozen of. His most useful effects will probably be party-wide buffs, but he can also fire off major direct-damage spells in a pinch, and without leaving himself near-incapacitated afterwards.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by tbrock1031

A few suggestions:

Realm Magic
Syntactic/Runic Magic
Ritual Path Magic

Note that these tend to be the more flexible systems. Runic in particular gives the feel of "ancient Magic" while all three permit the creation of new spells on-the-fly.

I would have tossed in Standard Magic (it gets no love), but for the fact that it doesn't have set rules for coming up with new spells. (Coming up with new spells for it seems to be an art, not a science.)

Even the systems mentioned only let you create previously unknown spells. They'll work by the same rules as previously existing spells and won't be any more "advanced".

With its' systems or prereqs Standard Magic does have spells that are more advanced than the spells that came before. If you limit PC knowledge at start you will have these more advanced spells yet to come.

This is obviously not perfect but Gurps doesn't really have a an existing system that meets your goals completely.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Kesendeja

I need help picking out a magic system for a game I'm running.

The system needs to be combat capable.
Have enough spells it can simulate a system with a long history.
Have rules for creating spells, to simulate the cutting edge of magic.

I'd appreciate opinions on what system to get and why.

Sounds like Ritual Path Magic to me. RPM can do combat spells pretty easy, despite what some folks are going to say about it's "slowness." Yes. It is slow compared to the basic set. 3d Fireball takes one second in Basic magic, in RPM it's going to take around 15 - but that's what charms are form. It lets you create spells in a balanced self-consistent way. The only thing it doesn't do is the same thing GURPS doesn't do well - no infinite armor, damage, or infinite anything really. A spell takes about 5 minutes to create if you want to do it up like a regular entry from a book and you can easily keep a file of spells written up in the past. I know in my previous campaign I have something like a 100 unique spells because I took the time to write them up fully after the session was over. If you're planning on a long-term campaign RPM is really the way to go for most genres. Some it doesn't do well, but more information about what you are trying to achieve would be needed.

[Anaraxes]

Originally Posted by Kesendeja

Have rules for creating spells, to simulate the cutting edge of magic.

At least one way I can read this request, Kesendeja isn't asking for a way to calculate the energy cost of a spell, a la RPM pp 14-15. It's a question about research. How many hours does it take to invent a new spell; what sort of materials and lab space and so on do you need? In RPM, you don't have to invent a spell; you can just attempt any effect you think up, starting immediately. Defining the game-mechanical parameters for the spell is not the same as inventing a new spell in the setting.

AD&D had some rules for dumping gold into spell research to invent a new spell (though I've forgotten the details). Ars Magica had a system for doing lab research, a season at a time. In GURPS, sometimes people use the Gadgeteering rules. RPM has a section for creating Grimoires on 32, referencing the invention rules -- though grimoires aren't exactly spells. GURPS Magic has some brief rules on p15 for conceiving new spells. (Also some rules, or at least guidelines, for calculating their energy cost -- but that's the "defining the mechanics" system, not the spell invention system.)

[Kesendeja]

The game I'm running right now has two distinct worlds in question. One has a long tradition of magic but is rather stagnate. Magic hasn't changed in thousands of years.
The second world has recently rediscovered magic, and they are quickly expanding their knowledge on the subject.
So I need a system that can handle both worlds, and players who are doing the creation of their own spells.

[vierasmarius]

Originally Posted by Kesendeja

The game I'm running right now has two distinct worlds in question. One has a long tradition of magic but is rather stagnate. Magic hasn't changed in thousands of years.
The second world has recently rediscovered magic, and they are quickly expanding their knowledge on the subject.
So I need a system that can handle both worlds, and players who are doing the creation of their own spells.

You may be interested in the Magic as Technological Progress article from Pyramid 3/43. It's for the Basic Magic system, giving each spell a "Sorcery Level" analogous to mundane Tech Levels. As a society's SL improves it uncovers more advanced spells, and (optionally) improves the efficiency or reliability of older spells. Of course, using the Basic Magic system means that players won't actually be able to "invent" new spells, but they may unlock spells from higher SLs. A Gadgeteer (Thaumatology) advantage may be in order.