Damage Resistance: How Noticeable Is It By Default

[Plane]

One thing where knowing DR is important is when it's localized DR to certain locations.

One trait that comes to mind here is Hooves on B42 which costs the same as DR1 (Feet Only) [3] and also gives +1 per die to kicking damage like Blunt Claws (which is probably worth 1 or 2 points, I think"there is no discount for claws on only some of your limbs" should be flexible).

Consider: "Not Bad Grip (One Hand Only)" is basically worth 4 points (there is a -80% mitigator for bad grip applying to just one hand on MA42) meaning "One Hand Only" is -25% for applying to half what it ought to.

That's basically what "claws for just feet" is, perhaps with -34% instead of -25% because legs are clumsy to attack with so them being the only option stinks?

I guess one could argue that the way Hooves pays for the partial Blunt Claws is by saving points by having that DR be visible?

Then again, B42 Claws tend to be overpriced (least for normal ST ranges with thrust in the 1 die range) and only seem to come into their own at high ST amounts where the "per die" bonus is acquired more cheaply than via Innate Attack.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

That last question doesn't really fit. Making supers with invisible DR pay for the privilege is, to borrow your words, "a question of character points". Nobody says you can't build Clark Kent's bulletproof skin. The question is whether that's worth more points on Clark Kent than it is on a 10-storey battle robot or a guy who looks like a rock troll. Which has no impact on the setting, because character points are not in-setting phenomena.

But the player characters will only be glass cannons or monsters. Perhaps I overstate it. After all the obvious move is just to build all your durable characters with damage reduction since that will be invisible for free.

[Plane]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

player characters will only be glass cannons or monsters.

Low Signature comes in levels in Powers though, wouldn't gradual application of penalties to perceive the trait reflect a middle ground where "his skin looks thick, but he's not Ben Grimm" ? Maybe when making some kind of skill roll that could allow estimation of DR quantity?

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

the obvious move is just to build all your durable characters with damage reduction since that will be invisible for free.

Perhaps we could question that somehow too?

Other kinds of Injury Tolerance are obvious. "No Eyes" you don't have eyes unless you take 'No Signature' so you have fake eyes to entice attacks (count as face hits) and with No Head you obviously have no head unless No Sig makes it seem like you have one but it counts as a torso hit whenever the "face" is targeted.

In "no body part" cases I don't think partial 'Low Sig' levls would make sense though, needs to be all or nothing

It's probably obvious by default if you are "Diffuse" I would imagine. Perhaps also Homogenous (it's enough to give you half the cover DR, you're probably thinner unless you buy HP up to double to compensate) In either case I could see partial low sig levels.

The question is what you would actually perceive ITDR as being...

Perhaps it could be thinner like Homogenous... there's no mention of ITDR giving reduced Cover DR but sometimes I wonder since that seems to scale with the injury divisors for the basic set ITs.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

But the player characters will only be glass cannons or monsters. Perhaps I overstate it.

Egregiously so - No Signature is a +20% Enhancement. That's not the end of the world unless you're putting it on a really enormous fraction of your point budget.

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

After all the obvious move is just to build all your durable characters with damage reduction since that will be invisible for free.

A 4-digit DR score is certainly not something that the character-building RAW encourages.

Originally Posted by Plane

The question is what you would actually perceive ITDR as being...

I don't think ITDR corresponds to any physical phenomenon - it's a weird power thing that models pure genre conceits AFAICT. It's hard enough to figure out what it could look like when it's actually being put to use in a non-cartoon world, never mind at rest.

[Plane]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

I don't think ITDR corresponds to any physical phenomenon - it's a weird power thing that models pure genre conceits AFAICT. It's hard enough to figure out what it could look like when it's actually being put to use in a non-cartoon world, never mind at rest.

There are ways like perceiving it as "more HP except lacking many HP features".

"ST/HP that doesn't make you larger or heavier" is an idea for ST/HP you get with a source modifier per Supers 25.

On the other hand, in a four-color campaign, heroes with enhanced ST or HP may be able to function as if they had increased weight, even if they don’t.
This amounts to a +0% modifier to ST or HP, because the advantages (improved slam damage and knockback resistance; withstanding greater doses of poison) roughly balance out the disadvantages (taking more
damage in falls).
Players may designate ST or HP with a power or source modifier as granting virtual weight or not

I take that to mean you have low-mass sturdiness (you're a harder object to collide with) though I don't really get how that means more inertia for knockback resistance based on HP alone.

Based on this precedent though, what if we floated this to other stuff like DR? IE it's visible if you get it wild, but it's indistinguishable if you get it as part of a power modifier.

That should probably similarly remove the offense use of DR (hurting those who punch DR 3+ with a max damage equal to DR) the way it removes offensive use of HP (slams) though?

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

I don't think ITDR corresponds to any physical phenomenon - it's a weird power thing that models pure genre conceits AFAICT.

It corresponds to "durable out of proportion to mass, but not actually invulnerable". You can use it to model things like compartmentalization in warships.

[naloth]

I gave Superman "low signature" because while his skin bounces bullets, you typically won't notice until you hit him with an attack that would seriously hurt a normal person or give him a close up (doctor's) examination. If bullets weren't obviously deflected or flattened on his skin, I would have gone No Signature.

In a broader sense, the Thing looks like he may have a nuisance effect on his DR since it's rocky and tends to chip off (leaving evidence). The Hulk looks big and tough but you wouldn't necessarily equate "big green = bullet proof" unless you had experience with hulk like creatures. That's similar to how you'll know that scaly or leathery hide is tough at a visual glance from experience.

My rule of thumb has been:
-10%: looks like DR to even when you're seeing it for the first time
0%: would be able to guess it's DR from prior experiences
+10%: requires an examination
+20%: can't really tell even when it's in use

[RyanW]

If you asked me how I would do it (completely separate from authorial intent, because I don't want to try to read minds)...

DR (unmodified) is fairly obvious. You can (perhaps with a roll) get a fair estimate of protection with a good look at a person, and would instantly know when hitting or touching. Low Signature basically requires a touch and a roll, while No Signature just makes hits seem mysteriously less effective.

If DR creates problems ("crippling bulk or appearance issues") I would also add Disadvantages - possibly as Temporary Disadvantage limitations if he armor is switchable - to cover those effects.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

Egregiously so - No Signature is a +20% Enhancement. That's not the end of the world unless you're putting it on a really enormous fraction of your point budget.

And you will be if you aren't making a glass cannon. Large amounts of DR is expensive.

[awesomenessofme1]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

And you will be if you aren't making a glass cannon. Large amounts of DR is expensive.

It's also worth noting that that +20% will have a disproportionate impact if the DR also has a significant amount of limitations, as it likely will. If the only other modifiers it has are Tough Skin and Can't Wear Armor, a +20% would double the cost.